If the Universe is expanding ...

[joggerjayne]

Where is it expanding into ?

[Old_Geezer]

It isn't expanding into anything. The space between things is growing.

[Old_Geezer]

Or maybe it's you shrinking.

[Old_Geezer]

I do not believe the universe can be infinitely large.

We are told that at the start it was microscopic in size and went through a period of rapid expansion. But to be infinitely large now it would have to expanded not rapidly, but at an infinite rate, which I find inconceivable. Not seen that sugested anywhere.

So I think it is It is boundless, rather than infinite, which implies to me that space is curved and so if you could travel far enough, you'd find yourself back where you started.

[jake-the-peg]

Well the Universe may not be "everything" molykins - it may be just what we can be able to actually access.

There is some thought that what we see may just be part of a huge "multiverse" a bubble in a huge foam.

Why do people think this?

Well there are a lot of things that are just right for us to exist. If the strength of gravity were a bit more or less or the electric force or many others there would not be any matter let alone any life.

So some people think that there are many other Universes where the physical laws are all slightly different. We see things right for life because we came to be in one that was suitable.

There are other explanations of course but it's an interesting idea

[mollykins]

jake, but we only know about 0.001% of the universe, and by definition the universe isn't just a place, its everything.

[Old_Geezer]

By definition an atom was the smallest possible thing, until we realised it wasn't.

Similarly the universe which having been defined to apparently include everything there ever is, we suddenly realise only includes everything in our particular universe.

We learnt or postulate more and so need better definitions / more words.

[jake-the-peg]

Ah that depends we know about only a small amount of what is in the Universe but we can see objects from very Early in the Universe's history.

Words change their meaning - By all means you could encompass the "Multiverse" if it exists as the Universe but then you'd need a new name for what we now think of as the Universe.

The "atom" means (or rather meant) something indivisble "by definition".

Definitions have a habit of changing as our knowedge expands

[mollykins]

its everything though, you can't change the definition of 'everything'

[Old_Geezer]

Everything here ? Or everything everywhere ?

Take our word there is speculation that there are uncountable numbers of universes out there these days. Maybe an infinite number. Just the way meanings change by necessity.

[society]

Jakethepeg - all your post on here make much sense to me.


OldGeezer - what's smaller than an atom? What's the term for that which is smaller?

[jake-the-peg]

Why not?

Atom means indivisble the definition of that changed.

The language changes all the time

The word "silly" comes from the German "selig" meaning happy or blessed and originally meant that.

If you get stuck into the idea that language can't change you'll end up as one of those people going around telling people they ought to use the word "whom"

[mollykins]

sub atomic aprticles are smaller than particles, the most known are the constituents of an atom ie protons neutrons and electrons.

[mollykins]

and yes that should be particles but i wanted to egt in there before someone else did.

[society]

...and morons lol

[Old_Geezer]

Electrons, protons, neutrons are smaller.
Quarks are smaller again.
And so it goes.

[jake-the-peg]

Well that's my point

The word Atom means indivisble by definition.

When J J Thompson discovered the Electron and Rutherford split the atom nobody got up and said "we have to rename the atom"

[society]

How could something be smaller than invisible?

[mollykins]

invisible to the naked eye. we can't take proper pciture of atoms we can capture their shadow though its been done before . . .

[jake-the-peg]

http://www.astro.virg...ter/atom_lattice.html

[mollykins]

who said invisible anyway, indivisible was mentioned which means you can't make it any smaller.