Listener 4122, Heart by Phi

[Cruncher]

Thought I'd start a thread for one. Rather relieved that the Friday club are quite on this one. Have a smattering of answers but a long way to go. Happy solving all!

[bellabee]

if you have read midazolam's warning and have satisfied the conditions in the preamble for the initial grid pattern [all entries inside the 15 columns with 180 degree symmetry] i suspect you need the smallest possible adjustment to complete the puzzle.

[bellabee]

in keeping with the theme, there is a knock-on effect to consider.

[JackDeCrow]

Echoing the general "blimey, what a stinker" views expressed here, I have at least managed to solve all the clues (give or take a bit of uncertainty on the wordplay for 37). If only that felt like significant progress! I have also managed to arrange the answers into a "grid" with 180-degree symmetry, albeit with some empty squares in, but without resorting to double letters yet. Reading the preamble again this morning, I see that may be wrong. Does the "initial grid pattern, which has 180-degree symmetry" already have the first set of double letters in it, and only 15 columns?

[starwalker]

Too much starting and stopping on this over the weekend for it to be described as enjoyable. I have all the clues solved, word A and B and can guess what is required, but cannot at the moment get the first grid into shape. I think I feel a Victor Meldrew moment coming on.

[Rogue-Elfe]

Bellabee, Unless I have got something very seriously wrong, the formation of word B by creating double-lettered cells doesn't form a 9x15 grid at all. It is still a very irregular grid indeed, with letters projecting out all over the place. I can see a way of making it fit; but then the new phrase (which jumped out at me for all the wrong reasons, as already cryptically indicated) would have its two words appearing in the wrong order and with one letter absent. Now, the first letter of 1 would seem to be the ideal candidate for that letter; but it's nowhere near in the correct place.
I have, as you may have guessed, solved all the clues, found A and B and the relevance of the title and am now helplessly stuck. Oh what a....
But then, I haven't found that final word yet.

[Cruncher]

Rather (or should I say quiet) delayed myself by attaching a superfluous 'C' to the beginning of my answer to 4 down which made my preliminary grid look very odd. But everything now in place and my hunch about word B looking to be correct. More devastation to come no doubt but a confident start

[bellabee]

jackdecrow - yes it does. but empty squares? rogue-elfe - it forms an n x 15 grid initially [the preamble only states '15 columns'] however, from your description it sounds like you formed a symmetrical grid with all the clues in the right order but maybe 4 letters outside the 15 columns and triangular gaps inside? that was how i started. a perfectly formed initial grid is possible. but even then as midazolam says 'beware!' - it offers various options.

[bellabee]

rogue-elfe 'perfectly formed' may be slightly misleading - and re-reading your post i think you are closer than i thought [just an extra row to deal with perhaps]. i can't quite visualise your problem though, sorry.

[bellabee]

to put it plainly your first sentence is correct ['jutting out all over the place' is what confuses me].

[bellabee]

[this might be going too far] but the 1st letter of 1 is the penultimate letter of the phrase, yes. and i should now refrain from further comment i think.

[bellabee]

apart from this.... the two words should be in the conventional order - maybe delaying the start of 1 is your answer rogue-elfe?

[JackDeCrow]

Well, no empty squares now, but still a slightly disjointed and not quite constrained to 15 columns shape to my initial grid. At least the letters for word B have now appeared, but I think I may still be in midazolam territory!

[Apache4D]

Oh you lucky lucky devils, oh to be even discussing the end game would be blessed relief!! I do not know why but for some reason the clues are immune to my cold solving efforts, have only solved about a dozen. It is truly strange as for every single clue I have solved, the clue structuring is very fair with no convoluted structuring, they seem rather elementary and obvious once solved....I blame the pressures of work and my caffeine addled brain, I just wish I could get a grid entry before I throw in the towel!

[teuchter2]

Poor old Teuchter has now struggled to 22 clues solved and knows word A and can have a guess at B, but I am a long way from forming any sort of grid. Is Ruthrobin an SNP sympathiser? Are we allowed to make political comments on this thread?

[Philoctetes]

My short burst approach to the Listener is very slowly producing a coherent picture. It does not really suit a great wodge of cold solving like this. Each of my sessions seems to start from cold. I have 17 more clues to go, and have word A, an increasingly cohesive grid, and an idea what B might be. So, Apache, stick to it. We are allowed to use Wednesday, and perhaps even Thursday before we even consider throwing in the towel.

[IainGrace]

Like others, we have identified A and are pretty sure that we know what B is. Have solved a number of clues, but a hard slog by cold solving still required. As we tend to devote weekends only to the puzzle, we have the added complication of the Six Nations next weekend.

[Cruncher]

Respectably in the last post on Monday. Splendid puzzle. Guess the purists will gripe about the lack of real words in the final grid but for me this is just the kind of Listener that floats my boat

[Cruncher]

I think it would be a pity to throw too many hints out. This is too good a puzzle to spoil. So if anyone wants a gentle nudge they are welcome to email me at [email protected]. And if anyone would like to mail me and tell me what those pesky four words were in last week's puzzle (which is long since in the post to Mr Green) I'd be delighted to put that one to bed

[contendo]

Apache4D - I agree the cold-solving is a hard slog, but I suspect you haven't yet found word A. Once you've found a redundant word and identified its synonym you will find other synonyms which can be deleted from other clues, which then start to make more sense.
As for me, I've got the beginnings of an initial grid fill but still have a long way to go. Finally got the first clue which we are warned is not in its "natural" location in the BRB. It's not in under the second word either, only under another word altogether.

[BlackHugh]

Cruncher - I've sent you an explanation of the "pesky four words" - I just wish I was as far as you with this weeks one!