Listener 4053 Phoney by Wasp

[robinruth]

What a pleasure to have a straightforward puzzle that we could manage. This one was a pleasure from start to finish and great for us relative newcomers. I am glad there is one like this now and then - a fine one to prompt complete Listener beginners to attempt.

[zita-green]

Straightforward? Want to run that by me again?

[AHearer]

I agree that it wasn't too hard to fill the grid, but I'm sure there's a tighter theme to the five-letter answers than I've found so far, and I've put the puzzle to one side and will return to the main theme word later.

[cluelessJoe]

Agreed AHearer & well done robinruth. A quick and undemanding grid fill and an apparently bland and uninspiring theme. I was too tired to bother with the remaining step last night, but hopefully will finish before I collect the paper this morning, first time for a while!

[starwalker]

Another one in agreement. The grid fill was straightforward, the five letter words fell into place. Now just the eight letter theme to decode. Put this one down as another encouragement for new or newish solvers.

[turnerjmw]

Go to the head of the speed solvers' class, robinruth! Well done indeed. Like others, I found this a straightforward enough grid fill, and the five and eight-letter words were not too hard to guess, though as clueless joe indicates, the theme was slight. A pleasant, less demanding puzzle, great for newcomers.

[Zabadak]

All done except the Theme word. So far I've got 12 possibles, none with an obvious connection to anything I can see

[Mysterons]

'Obvious' it certainly isn't !! This was a neat puzzle which kept me quietly engaged for an hour or so this morning, in contrast to all that ringing last week. Thanks Wasp !

[emcee]

Enjoyable and a great puzzle for beginners.

[midazolam]

Yes, also in agreement. Managed this one at work without the help of Chambers (just the internet) so I am glad of an easier challenge this week. Zabadak, there is only one arrangement and links with the title. Not awe-inspiring but kept the boredom away wishing I was enjoying probably the last warm weekend of the year.

[Zabadak]

Thanks midazolam, I have it now- my "twelve" was the result of a slip of the number pen. I agree with others that it's a bit weak. There is, however, another word that can be pulled out of the mix: as a Tottenham fan, I would be very offended if it were readily associated with the title!

[twencelas]

Interesting discussion on what would be a good puzzle to those new to the Listener crossword. I agree if your motives are to say you've completed one, then this does not rank as the hardest of the year but certainly my attraction to these puzles is not their ease of completion, but the quirky twists at the end, which this one does n't really have. Last week's bells theme had some humour and wit, then there was the artistry of the DSOTM - much more satisfying and depending on your age probably simpler than this one - usw. The point I'm trying to get at is I would n't be coming back for more after this one, if it was my first attempt at one.

[robinruth]

You know, you might, Twenceslas, if you had previously been put off by the great leap from regular Grauniad , Speccie or Telegraph solving to these heights. There was a gentle double endgame in Wasp's 'Phoney' that tied things together (which those other don't usually have) and the coded words gave an extra satisfaction. Have we perhaps been spoilt by all that cherry tree chopping, cake-making and bell-ringing?
I am most intrigued to know what Zabadak's other (pejorative?) word is and wonder whether he came to it via digits or letters.

[Mysterons]

Certainly nothing phoney about Spurs' performance this afternoon judging by the scoreline - I'm looking forward to seeing the goals on MOTD later on this evening ('Hot' is the adjective Zabadak was thinking of I think !)

[twencelas]

Robinruth Fair point - I suspect I know the word Zabadak refers to which is associated with tottenham football team and can be encoded from the missing numbers - don't want to say it here but you only need to change 2 letters from the theme (5th and 7th) to those preceding them alphabetically and rearrange

[robinruth]

Twencelas, your recipe actually produced two for me - one a compound which is used about angry tennis players and the other a pluralised Shakespearian hero - amazing! However, I have little doubt that the 'original' title-linked word was the one that was required.

[Clamzy]

In 22 down the answer is found only in the new edition of Chambers. Although I have bought a copy I still tend to soldier on with the old one on CD.
A while ago Midazolam recommended Quinapalus and more recently Mysterons gave us Chris F.A.Johnson's Word Finder, both of which are excellent solving aids. Neither of them however tackle 'letter choice' anagrams, which would have been invaluable for this weeks puzzle. For example:- Find anagrams of [abc][def][tuv] would give fat; aft; bet etc. Does anyone know of such a program?

[midazolam]

Clamzy - i do not know of a program, but although the correct numbers can be encoded to letters, it was easier to work backwards as we already know the correct letter that was misprinted in the entry. Unless I am missing something, of course.

Always nice to see a 2008 word crop up, I think it is the first entry we have had (with SARS I remember being part of a wordplay).

[robinruth]

Interesting that Bradford has that new word (that is where I found it after having guessed it from the wordplay).

[Clamzy]

My (7th edition) Bradford's gives under 'clothes' a different spelling, which held me up for a while until I checked the new Chambers.

[Speravi]

midazolam: there was no indication in the rubric that the correct letters that were misprinted constituted the mix, only that each required letter belonged to the same group as a corresponding correct letter. I can't decide whether the actuality is a strength or a weakness.