LISTENER CROSSWORD 4022 At arms length by Hotspur

[Clamzy]

Maybe all our prominent members are resting after last week's exertions, so I'll kick off this week's thread. Haven't had more than a glance at it yet and am not too familiar with this setter.

[easterfool]

Well - almost managed to fill the grid - but worried by 18ac (even though it is complete) and by 9d. On the latter, I can see that the 3 letters that i have got fit part of the clue very well, but what I expect for the last letter creates a perfectly good word - but it doesn't fit the apparent definition.

Got the literary work and its creator, but after that what on earth! I'm glad that I started this earlier than I often do, but I suspect that I will be reading your threads over and over again.

There are so many names in the grid answers!! I wish that I had listened more carefully in English Literature instead of falling asleep. Is the Oxford Companion of English Literature any help in this?

[Apache4D]

Well, had hoped to sit down this evening and say that I had finally finished........alas, I can see the finish line but have hit the wall!!

My enjoyment of the grid increased the closer I got to the end, and think that there are only 1 or 2 clues that I don't fully understand the wordplay for. I had found the majority of the misprints before deducing the title, even though the author had been visible throughout!!

Have really enjoyed the hunt, and it all kicked off very nicely with the obvious members, and the rendezvous and concept (including link to the title) was instantly clear.......however, I have found all but one of the members, who is proving somewhat elusive and have several possibilities for the final second set member.

One of my chosen members is ridculously obscure (compared to the others), and haven't confirmed that it is indeed a "word 2", however the coincidence of the word found in relation to the member of the second set I think was too high to ignore.

Well Done to the usual crowd, and think the discussions have been very fair as without actually reaching the end game they are of little meaning/use.

[u10]

easterfool - with regards to 9d - have you checked for a possible misprint in the first word? Don't worry about 18ac - all the letters are checked anyway. I'm pretty confident about the members of the first set of characters and found a dictionary of literary characters to be useful when identifying the second set. The rendevous came later once I'd studied the names in the second set more carefully - very nice PDM. It's worth seeing this one through to the end - great sense of achievement for someone like me with no real knowledge of literature!

[easterfool]

Oh I do feel such a fool (living up to my name - or should that be down to it) - so thanks u10 for your gentle shove in the right direction. I had missed one of the misprints out having realise what was needed but failed to tie it to a clue.

Inspiration has come from the title - so now I have 5 first group members found and five seconds too and I know what their link is - so only the last one's to find. Almost a week to do it so there is hope.

Incidentally 19d: I know that I have right but how is swash involved?

[Apache4D]

A flourish to a letter..........

[easterfool]

Well what a delight - the week is not yet up and I have found the sixth ones for both groups. What a clever set up. Pity about some of the clueing - but I can't even set a crossword, so who am I to comment.

Big worry now - what will my wife have me doing before Friday late afternoon or Saturday morning? Perhaps I won't tell her that I have cracked it. I can always worry on about 18ac and 19d.

Roll on the next one - even if it is mathematical. Love those too, but not surprising really as that was my subject, which got neglected when I was introduced to the Listener at College - straight from doing my parents' Daily Mail. What a culture shock!

[easterfool]

Thanks Apache4D - my mind was in the gutter of pig swill obviously. Must remember to read all of all definitions in Chambers. Perhaps that can be my Lenten resolve

[Mysterons]

Another fine Listener Crossword, despite the mistake at 3 Down, and this must be one of the longest threads here to date. I managed to enter all the thematic material (one animal, but not a cat !) with a quarter of the grid still left to fill, but I quite like the extra help this affords with the remaining clues.

Interested in Apache's comment about filling the right half of the grid first. This happened to be my experience too, and I'm always fascinated by the order in which answers fall into place. For example, my order of entry for the fictional elements was JKHBNF (though I didn't connect J to his creator till last of all). It would be interesting to hear the order in which others here made their entries - and to see whether this thread can reach 100 !!

[twoshortplan]

I've completed the grid, found the title and creator, found five of each of the first and second sets and worked out the rendezvous.

So far so good.
But I'm not happy with a couple of clues:
8DN "....of an organic barrrier" seems a poor definition of my answer. No misprint and 5 checked letters mean I am reasonably confident. Is it just a poor clue or am I missing something?
14A Why is defenses spelt US style? Why are guns and defenses in plural. The use of the word "part" seems repetitious. This make me suspicious although the answer seems to fit the definition and three letters are checked even though one is checked with 8DN.

A cautius hint would be welcome.

[twoshortplan]

Oops! A cautious hint would be even more welcome.

[Mysterons]

8 down contains a very poor definition, but then so does 19 down, so we can assume that Mr. Percy is not an American physician ! 14 across is obtained by removing a 3 letter abbreviation for guns from a 7 letter word which is part of defenses (it could just as well be part of defense, but guns does have to be plural really). The appearance of part in the clue is perhaps a little inelegant - maybe section would have been a better choice ?

[Clamzy]

Mysterons - I found my five in this order FNBJH and as for the sixth see my earlier posting. I did spend a whole morning in the library trying to find that particular lady in the (many) novels of one Elizabeth Lowell. When it finally dawned I found T almost immediately.

[robinruth]

We newcomers had the set of six (twice) but were still very dubious about the top right-hand corner (see kind hints given to me about the reakdown of clues earlier!)
I teach literature but that didn't really help - except perhaps giving us some very obvious candidates. Our order was KNFHJB with tremendous doubt and hesitation about B. But we did find two second group candidates for one first group candidate - both totally literary and bona fide and a very ambiguous set of three candidates for B! (Just thought I'd help the thread get to 100!)

[Cruncher]

T? - Maybe there are more variants than I realised. I hit on the rendezvous after spotting H and K. Then F, N, J and very lastly B. I took longest to fill the top right quadrant of the grid, so each to their own.

Is the length of this thread setting a new record. Perhaps Mr Green could be persuaded to incorporate the lengths of these threads into his statistics. Now that really would annoy the other side!

[Apache4D]

I personally thought that the aforementioned clues were perfectly reasonable........for barrier read membrane.........the definition starting "describing....." is 100% accurate as the answer is the adjective of a common condition that is casued by the last four words. Anyway, I liked them!

As for the members, raced through first 5 FNKHJ, but it is the final one that I just cannot find the associated culprit that would be allowed admission to the rendez-vous!

Really not looking forward to the number's grid next week!

[robinruth]

Klamzy - K is definitely in there!

[Cruncher]

Apache4D - the number of times the answer must have been googled this week by hungry listenerenes, I imagine it would come quiet close to the top of a search.

The author's estate must rubbing their hands with glee anticipating a resurgence of interest in said work!

[Mysterons]

19's condition certainly can be caused in this manner, but so can dozens of others, and so the definition is at best rather vague - the possible symptoms are many and varied depending upon the organ affected.

Similarly, organic barrier is extremely vague, and there are also plenty of inorganic examples, so perhaps organic is unhelpful ?

[twoshortplan]

Thanks Mysteron,

You have confirmed my answers. I'm glad it's not just me that had doubts.

[Mysterons]

The results of our brief survey so far seem to indicate that the clues to K&F provided the least difficulty, followed by N, H, J and B in that order. However, we need more data, as there is a fair variation across this small sample !