Listener 4147 OZ and WR by Theod

[starwalker]

Having seen that this has a Playcode code, I was intending to put it to one side. Having failed at that, I now find myself within an ace of finishing. Much easier than I expected, but I realise that for some that this will be a bete noir.
Thanks Theod.

[tilbee]

Just logged into the thread, feeling somewhat guilty about using software to crack the Playfair codeword, but now understand that I am in good company.

Thought I had completed by obeying coded instruction, but now realise that I had not actually entered the theme word. Title finally explained !

[kwyjibo]

The grid fill wasn't too bad and then i set about finding the codeword, which following a sudden hunch, wasn't as tough as I expected. I didn't know there were Playfair Code crackers on the web and I'm glad I didn't! The final step took a while to work out.

[cluelessJoe]

My, how time flies. The puzzzle which I mentioned above was actually 'count down to re-entry' from 2006 - and of course memorable, as I see it was by the brilliant Shackleton who has gone from strength to strength since then.
Sorry I got it wrong Shackleton.

[BlackHugh]

I unexpectedly enjoyed that as well. Although I must admit my heaart sank a bit on seeing the dreaded Playfair word! But thanks RuthRobin and Midazalom for the Quinaplus and Crossword Man sites which I haven't seen before. As these things seem to roam in packs I'm now far more confident for the expected next playfair puzzle.

[pushmi-pullyu]

Well I've cracked the code, (thanks to that helpful pointer from RuthRobin), but I'm clearly barking up the wrong tree because the only theme word I can see is very well known.

[BlackHugh]

p-p The keyword is well known. The theme word is not.

[dead-eye]

Having completed first then looked at the thread to see that I could have saved myself an hour of study. I don't know whether to laugh or cry.

[Zabadak]

dead-eye: tee hee!

[Clamzy]

Many thanks to Theod for an excellent puzzle. Mine is now in the envelope ready to post tomorrow but I can't claim to have finished.
I solved the four coded clues and therefore the playfair was no problem, but those extra words -phew. I'm still trying to get to grips with the first few down ones, but fortunately got enough others to "get the message".

[Staurologist]

A neat use of a good theme. The final touch should satisfy all tastes.

As a scientist, I consider that any method available is acceptable for solving problems. Indeed, there are some scientific problems that can only be solved by recourse to electronic databases and search engines. Anyone who didn't use such aids would be considered very peculiar. I therefore do not consider the use of engines such as Quinapalus to be cheating. The prime purpose of a puzzle is to give entertainment, and anything that enables that should be acceptable. Having said that, I would encourage others to give the cold solving a try before going to the engine. In this case the Playfair yielded up quite quickly, because two of the encoded pairs were in the same column, which is rather unusual for such problems; when I saw that, it fell out quite easily and gave me more pleasure than I think I would have had from using the engine.

For those who have not come across the theme word before, there are actually five words (perhaps six) for different forms of this type of construction, which compounds the problem of solving. Chambers includes three of them (perhaps because the others do not have English equivalents).

Incidentally, is this the first time that a Listener puzzle has dealt with copulation? :>)

[Ruthrobin]

Puzzled Staurologist - do you just mean the kinky carrying on in bunk beds?

[aldanna]

Keyword, codeword, themeword - anyone else confused? I thought I might be there but my word is no way weird/unknown. As ever, "might be there" means not there. Thanks for the tip about Quinapalus (however spelt) - I had already directed Himself to find a site to solve the Playfair, which he did, but will bookmark Q.

[tenflags]

Well I enjoyed this one. No longer a PlayFair virgin now. Although pretty much in the same boat as Clamzy.

Relieved to have caught up having really struggled with 4145., good job 4146 was easier. No doubt I will be firmly back in my rear-gunner seat again next week.

[perseverer]

RR - puzzled also, but try Googling the themeword and look at the Wiki reference.

Aldanna - look back to Midazolam's posting

[perseverer]

RR - if you have the Chambers CD do a full text search for the second and third words of the definition and you will follow some of Staurologist's third paragraph ( I think!)

[Arcticpenguin]

Like everyone else it seems, I solved this using the specialist software on the web. Absolutely no qualms whatsoever as I've never managed to finish a Playfair puzzle before. It does however take some of the fun away.Even picked out all the extra words correctly first time - and that must be a first time for me.Someone said last week that the only thing worse than carte blanches were Playfair puzzles and along one comes. Must be the thought police again.

[pushmi-pullyu]

Arcticpenguin, it was me (I?) who said I dreaded Playfairs more than cartes blanches, but that was before I had been pointed towards Quinapalus. I feel differently now (which probably means we'll be back to the cbs next week).

[TheBear69]

I too used Quinapalus which and was astounded at how few letter pairs it needed to come up with the unique keyword. I thought this was a great way to construct a puzzle based on an interesting theme word that was brand new to me.

For those who want the satisfaction of solving the Playfair unaided, this one turns out to be at the fairly easy end of the scale, since you will have a number of XY->YZ mappings which means that XYZ are in the same row or column. From those it's fairly easy (as things things go) to get an initial structure and keep tacking additional letters on until you get well over half of the 5x5 grid filled. Next you look for patterns of letters that are in their normal alphabetical order and cycle the rows and columns around until the ordered letters are at the bottom.

If you got the keyword via Quinapalus, I would encourage you to go back and try to solve the Playfair cold; this can be an illuminating exercise.

[Ruthrobin]

Ah! Enlightenment, thanks. I wonder when someone will include all those full search definitions in a crossword!

[Philoctetes]

Staurologist - perhaps it is age, perhaps it is a classical education, but I'm afraid I understood your last line without thinking of any alternative meaning :(