Common courtesy, political correctness and the return of Carol Thatcher

[sp1814]

Carol Thatcher is back in the news. She was interviewed on BBC One's Andrew Marr Show over the weekend and said she has no regrets for referring to a black tennis player as a 'wolligog' (you know what I mean - don't want AB's censor to get me!).

She states "I used it in a context which wasn't actually appreciated at the time."

To a certain extent, she should be applauded for sticking to her guns, despite the obvious financial costs she has incurred (loss of earnings etc). And as she says, she's had thousands of letters of support, so she's not alone in thinking that her language shouldn't cause offence...

But what she says now raises an interesting question - exactly what circumstances would it be appropriate to refer to a black person as a wolligog?

How and where would this epithet be appropriate?

Would it be okay when there are no black people to hear it?

Is it like a tree falling over in the woods? If no black person is around to hear something offensive, then it's not offensive?

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/entertainment/80068 38.stm

[paraffin]

I'm far from being "ancient" but when I was growing up it was not uncommon to have shops which sold items whose colours were described as "****** brown". Where would you see that nowadays? The local BNP shop window?(Thank God we don't have one nearby).

And, N.J., unless I've completely misunderstood your post, it has been commonplace for a number of years for so say "racist complaints" to be pursued by the Police on the basis that someone has simply felt offended by a certain remark. However, the complainants to the best of my knowledge were always from the ethnic minorities, not the white population who apparently cannot be racially insulted for some obscure reason unknown to me.

[paraffin]

Regarding my last post, the starred out word is n****r which I realise nowadays is regarded as being racially offensive, hence the reason I put it in inverted commas before the word "brown".

[jake-the-peg]

Why do you say white people cannot be racially insulted?
I'm pretty sure you'll find a lot of Irish people who'll tell you that's rubbish!

[whifffey]

I still want to know why Black people get insulted so much. It's surely more than a skin colour thing. What on earth is going on? They do exactly the same things as everybody else, the same achievements, the same disappointments, so why all the stick?

[craft1948]

Our local beauty queen Miss York, whose father is Nigerian, has apparently been the target of racist threats. The paper reports that she also holds the title of 'Miss Black Britain'.......is there a 'Miss White Britain'?

[sp1814]

whifffey

I supposed you'd have to ask a bigot that.

What is noticeable, is that whenever someone makes a comment perceived as racist on telly, it does seem to be regularly anti-black Asian (Big Brother, Ms Thatcher, Ron Atkinson et al).

If I recall correctly, Trevor MacDonald referred to Bernard Manning as "a dead fat white racist", but other than that, I don't know of any UK black celebrity berating white people (happy to be corrected on that).

But getting things into perspective, the UK is hugely less racist than some European countries - I don't have an explanation for that.

[whifffey]

No, I'm asking you.

[sp1814]

craft1948

Uh-oh...we're now getting dangerously close to someone bringing up the MOBO awards.

Think it's time for me to dive for cover.

[sp1814]

whifffey

I have absolutely no idea.

I've never really been mates with any bigots, so I have no idea how their thought processes work (or don't work, depending on one's standpoint).

Why do some straight people hate gay people? Why do some Muslims fanatics hate non-Muslims? Why do some women hate men?

Couldn't give you an answer to any of that.

[tamborine]

maybe black adjoins indian/pakistani/jamaican/african/arabs etc and they don't like being lumped together.

Whereas white is irish/scottish/Aussie/canadian/american/european & they couldn't care less until you call a scotsman english - then you're dicing with death ;)

Color - get over it! We all want to be 'golden brown'!

[whifffey]

Sorry you couldn't come up with an answer sp, but it is absolutely fundamental to the case.

Where I live, you don't go out after dark, there's a small clue.

[BertiWooster]

sp1814

As our resident MOBO explainer - Dont go running off now - you hear ? !!!

[China Doll]

I imagine Whifffey it's because some black people are little sh1ts. As are some white. In the context of where you live you'd probably see more black people behaving disorderly and/or acting like thugs. Where I used to live I saw mainly white people doing the same thing.

I think you need to address the culture of stupidity (thank you America!) and its links with poverty Whifffey and then study the poorest areas, their crime rates and their ethinic margins before you could actually answer your question adequately.

[sp1814]

BertiWooster

Oh God no...no...no...no...it's like Groundhog Day when that awards show comes up.

It's on September 30th this year. I'm going to make sure I'm on holiday at the time.

[sp1814]

whifffey

Maybe I'm being a bit simple, but it would appear that you have the answer to either a) the appropriateness of using the term wolligog to describe black people or b) an explanation as to why bigots are racists, homophobes hate gays and why fanatical Muslims hate non-Muslims.

If you do, please share it. Not being sarcastic, I just don't know what you're implying.

[whifffey]

sp, of course it is not appropriate to use the wolligog word, but my goodness, what an over-reaction! You are as ever, playing a race card, a huge chip on your shoulder about being black (and maybe about being gay?). It's no big deal to most people, but it is to you.

All I asked you to examine is why black people get so much stick in the first place and I could tell you but am not going to get into that on here.

[paraffin]

jake:

I did not say that I personally agreed with the way "the system" works in persecuting......sorry "prosecuting" those who transgress against ethnic minorities, I was merely stating what I know in my experience.

Can you give an example of a non-white being persecuted (tut, there I go again!).......sorry, "prosecuted" for a racially aggravated offence? Not saying it hasn't happened! I personally am not aware if it has, that's all.

[jno]

ah, I was waiting for someone to protest about 'playing the race card'! Still waiting for the first mention of 'PC gone mad', though.

sp1814, I fear the answer to your question is 'At your local Tory party meeting'.

[rov1200]

Was Robertsons marmalade who had a golliwog sticker inside ever prosecuted? Why was it OK to do it then but not now? Did anyone take offence then? Can't remember anyone getting on their high horse over it.

There is a moral here somewhere. By trying to pretend we are concerned for their sensitivities we have only inflamed the situation even by just discussing it!

[DSnewsKE]

...and why wasn't anyone prosecuted for the slave trade?...if it was ok then...it must be ok now...this is what happens when you give black people equal rights...