Churchill great and wise or Racist

[anotheoldgit]

Was Winston Churchill a great leader who could forecast what would become of Britain, or simply a racist?

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/pages/live/articles /news/news.html?in_article_id=473368&in_page_i d=1770

[johnlambert]

Im not saying that other politicians were spineless, remember Churchill was NOT Prime Minister when we went to war in '39 that was Chamberlain. however after years of appeasement to Hitler + the Nazi's there were still some who thought we could bargain away the lives of millions of Europeans certain death and were naive (sp)? enough to think that he would leave us aslone if we gave him his own way. Even after the fall of France, Cabinate Ministers such as Halifax thought we should surrender BEFORE Hitler attacked and we suffered a humiliating defeat. Churchill was the most vocal in his will to win and gave some great speach's which inspired the British people (and those of the Empire/Commonwealth to fight on
Some people argue that Shakespeare didn't even write his own stuff, they attribute ther woks to Francis Bacon lol

[jake-the-peg]

Some people say man didn't go to the moon John,

But if you want the real greatest Briton, you just named him Francis Bacon.

[Goodsoulette]

Im shocked by Sp's ginger comments : (

[jake-the-peg]

BTW john that business about Halifax comes from Churchills memoirs

Not very reliable

This from an essay by the Historia David Carlton

In the event, Chamberlain had relatively little difficulty in reconciling Churchill and Halifax. The cabinet minutes of 28 May record him as saying: "While he thought that an approach to Italy was useless at the present time, it might be that we should take a different view in a short time, possibly even a week hence. The real question, therefore, was how to frame a reply to the French, which while not rejecting their idea altogether, would persuade them that now was the wrong time to make it." This approach "gained general agreement" from the War Cabinet and was embodied in a telegram sent by Churchill to his French counterpart

I think you may be confusing what Curchill said in cabinet with what he told the world he said.

But this shouldn't diminish his reputation - In such a dire situation as 1940 it would have been criminally irresponsible not to have at least seriously considered all available options

[Bazile]

Hmmmm - I suspect many politicians today, hold similiar opinions to Churchill , in private , regarding other races - I must say i'm a bit taken a back , to learn of his views , though

Anyway here is another put down, attributable to Churchill - it goes something like this -

Lady to Churchill - ' sir , your'e drunk '
Churchill to lady - 'madam , your'e ugly , but i'll be sober in the morning '

[sp1814]

The thing I think we should all keep in mind - Lloyd George and Winston Churchill didn't live in 2007.

It's wrong of us to even try to apply our modern sensibilities to people who lived completely<.b> different existances from us.

So viewed from our enlightened point of view, if Churchill was alive today, yes, he'd be considered a hideous racist.

But he's not alive today, so the question is probably too hypothetical to answer.

[sp1814]

Goodsoulette

I apologise (unreservedly) if I caused offence - but in my defence, I absolutely maintain that all famous red-headed women (apart from - Bonnie Langford, obviously) are gorgeous:

Rula Lenska
Rita Hayworth
Deborah Kerr
Lindsay Lohan
Tori Amos
Belinda Carlisle
Greer Garson
Susan Sarandon
Bryce Dallas Howard (Ron Howard's daughter)
Ann Sheridan
Nicole Kidman
Katherine Hepburn
Kirsten Dunst (even though she has slightly 'Dracula-like' incisors)
Marylyn Monroe (oh yes, fact fans)
Shania Twain
Mich�le Mercier
Julia Roberts
Julianne Moore

But when you turn to the men, what do we have?

Noddy Holder
Ronan Keating (same dentist as Kirsten Dunst)
Chris Evans

Don't all fight over them at once, eh girls?

Oh, and if you have a son who is red-headed Goodsoulette, and you're a red-head, then he's probably inherited your looks, so I'm not dissing him either.

I believe the accepted term for this post is 'back-preddling'.

[Dassie]

He was a great leader and had the courage to say what was needed to maintain true British standards. Protecting your Country is not being racist. It's a pity no-one from those times upto the present Govt. has had the guts to take action.

[Kromovaracun]

The thing I think we should all keep in mind - Lloyd George and Winston Churchill didn't live in 2007.

It's wrong of us to even try to apply our modern sensibilities to people who lived completely<.b> different existances from us.

Exactly. Quoted for truth.

[sp1814]

Kromovaracun

Yeah...it would've been even better if I'd spelled the word 'existence' correctly.

[Kromovaracun]

Sorting out your coding would have been nice as well, while we're at it :P

But you still put it very well.

[sp1814]

Dassie

Did you read the quotes being referred to?

How are they connected to "protecting the country"???

[Goodsoulette]

I have black hair but have a stunning red headed son. No big ginger type freckles as he has indeed inherited my skin colouring. He gets a little bit confused when little pld ladies come to grab him in the supermarket and pay him for the honouer of calling him copperknob

[anotheoldgit]

You missed one out sp1814 the great late Zola Taylor of The Platters.

[sp1814]

Agreed...and of course the late great Julie London.