I Wonder How Long Gulliver Will...
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Taliban in Britain
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If as reported the Taliban are now getting ready to attack mainland Britain. Should we now be preparing to withdraw our troops from Afghanistan and Iraq, so as to be ready for them to protect our own country, instead of our troops being overstretched by protecting foreign countries? Why else are large amounts of our taxes paid into the Defence Budget, if it is not for the defence of this country, or have I got it wrong somewhere?
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It did Admarlow and in case anybody's forgotten that's the whole reason we're in Afghanistahn to stop it being used as a safe haven and training base!
It rather sounds as if anotheoldgit would have us determine military deployment based on terrorist's press conferences!
So much for "hearts of Oak" and the "Blitz spirit" what would our grandparents have said?
It rather sounds as if anotheoldgit would have us determine military deployment based on terrorist's press conferences!
So much for "hearts of Oak" and the "Blitz spirit" what would our grandparents have said?
Well if the Taliban do attack then I would pressume it would be some sort of bomb/suicide thing... they're hardly going to come marching over the white cliffs.... And frankly if someone decides to blow themselves up or put a bomb anywhere I don't really see how bringing the troops back will help. They can't defend us from a bomb afterall.
Your grandparents said (or at least Winston Churchill did).
' We shall fight on the beaches, we shall fight on the landing grounds, we shall fight in the fields and in the streets, we shall fight in the hills; WE SHALL NEVER SURRENDER '.
We where prepared back then jake-the-peg and all you other �laid backs�. Who knows how they will come China Doll (it�s impossible to march over a cliff or have you not done any marching) it may be in the backs of lorries or we could be attacked from within, (we have a safe haven training base here don�t we?)
Don�t you think they have had enough time to organise all these things? Who says they will only attack with suicide bombs? But if they did put a bomb under your chair China Doll, yes the Army could protect you, have you not heard of the �Army Bomb Disposal Units�?
And if you are depending on the police to protect you, don�t hold your breath; just check it out with some of the families that have suffered due to police incompetence.
Please let us have some answers from those that live in the real world, those that can envisage what could be a very serious threat not only to our nation but also to our very way of living. Note I have said � could � but at least let us be prepared. Our government keep telling us there is a real threat but their only answer is be vigilant, I rest my case.
' We shall fight on the beaches, we shall fight on the landing grounds, we shall fight in the fields and in the streets, we shall fight in the hills; WE SHALL NEVER SURRENDER '.
We where prepared back then jake-the-peg and all you other �laid backs�. Who knows how they will come China Doll (it�s impossible to march over a cliff or have you not done any marching) it may be in the backs of lorries or we could be attacked from within, (we have a safe haven training base here don�t we?)
Don�t you think they have had enough time to organise all these things? Who says they will only attack with suicide bombs? But if they did put a bomb under your chair China Doll, yes the Army could protect you, have you not heard of the �Army Bomb Disposal Units�?
And if you are depending on the police to protect you, don�t hold your breath; just check it out with some of the families that have suffered due to police incompetence.
Please let us have some answers from those that live in the real world, those that can envisage what could be a very serious threat not only to our nation but also to our very way of living. Note I have said � could � but at least let us be prepared. Our government keep telling us there is a real threat but their only answer is be vigilant, I rest my case.
Oh good... the 'those of us who live in the real world argument'... one of my favourites, I find it always stops me in my tracks and makes me think.
To address your points in turn... The white cliffs remark may have been a little tongue in cheek to be fair, I can see how it might be difficult to march over them.
As someone who 'lives in the real world' I find it a little difficult to comprehend lorry loads of taliban members randomly turning up in some part of the country without anyone having an inkling about it until the attack.
My opinion is the most likely form of attack would be a suicide bomb because of the damage it causes. In the instance of someone randomly deciding to blow themselves up under my chair, I suspect the army will be of little use. I suspect they will also be of little use if someone walks in to a city somewhere right this second and decides to blow them up. We rather have to rely on our intelligence forces to prevent this.
Our goverment appears to me to be adopting the scaremongering approach that was used in the USA after the September 11th bombings. If you want to bow down, jump and react everytime an extremist or a Taliban leader has something to say that's up to you. I won't be scared by them. If I ever have to fight to protect my way of life and my right to hold these opinions I will, end of.
But arguments such as the load you just unleashed Oldgit remain something of a non starter for me.
To address your points in turn... The white cliffs remark may have been a little tongue in cheek to be fair, I can see how it might be difficult to march over them.
As someone who 'lives in the real world' I find it a little difficult to comprehend lorry loads of taliban members randomly turning up in some part of the country without anyone having an inkling about it until the attack.
My opinion is the most likely form of attack would be a suicide bomb because of the damage it causes. In the instance of someone randomly deciding to blow themselves up under my chair, I suspect the army will be of little use. I suspect they will also be of little use if someone walks in to a city somewhere right this second and decides to blow them up. We rather have to rely on our intelligence forces to prevent this.
Our goverment appears to me to be adopting the scaremongering approach that was used in the USA after the September 11th bombings. If you want to bow down, jump and react everytime an extremist or a Taliban leader has something to say that's up to you. I won't be scared by them. If I ever have to fight to protect my way of life and my right to hold these opinions I will, end of.
But arguments such as the load you just unleashed Oldgit remain something of a non starter for me.
naaaw, son of a ....... here i thought supertramp came up with that! oldgit, i don't know how old you are and i'm certainly not trying to be offensive, but if you can't read between the lines of what your government is peddeling to you, to rationalize their behaviour and their reasons for being in the middle east. then i suggest you should stop watching the news and stop reading, whatever it is your reading, as it appear's that it is working. as you are going to possibly put yourself in the ground long before any terrorist get's a chance to.
Oh dear China Doll how young and totally naive you appear to be. How many persons have already got into this country in the backs of lorries, on ships or by air? Well the official figure is there are 500, 000 illegal immigrants now living somewhere in Britain. Yes I know it is a little hard to comprehend that so many could possibly come into the country without anyone being aware of it, but they have, this is not scare mongering it is fact, welcome to the real world.
You do not think they will come in as an army, armed to the teeth, with the words Taliban tattooed across their chests do you? They and their weapons could already be here. There are already large arsenals of various types of weapons in this country waiting and ready for use.
So in your opinion the most likely form of attack would be a suicide bomb, do you really know this for sure or are you only going on past attacks? Maybe they will try another approach next time, who really knows, do you?
I admire your very brave attitude when you stated that you will not be scared of them, and you will fight to protect your way of life. Very brave words, but incidentally have you ever been under fire? I can assure you anyone who says they would never be scared, never has been under fire.
And finally I also do not wish to bow down to anyone, but regarding reacting to warnings, I do think it is wise to react don�t you? But then perhaps not in your case.
Oh dear I have just read maxximus and his now worn out Conspiracy Theorys, and it looks like I've hit a raw nerve again. No need to respond further.
You do not think they will come in as an army, armed to the teeth, with the words Taliban tattooed across their chests do you? They and their weapons could already be here. There are already large arsenals of various types of weapons in this country waiting and ready for use.
So in your opinion the most likely form of attack would be a suicide bomb, do you really know this for sure or are you only going on past attacks? Maybe they will try another approach next time, who really knows, do you?
I admire your very brave attitude when you stated that you will not be scared of them, and you will fight to protect your way of life. Very brave words, but incidentally have you ever been under fire? I can assure you anyone who says they would never be scared, never has been under fire.
And finally I also do not wish to bow down to anyone, but regarding reacting to warnings, I do think it is wise to react don�t you? But then perhaps not in your case.
Oh dear I have just read maxximus and his now worn out Conspiracy Theorys, and it looks like I've hit a raw nerve again. No need to respond further.
there are illegal immigrants in every country , why would you think yours would be any different. as for them having a large arsenals of weapons waiting for their use, waiting for their moment to strike, as your post is leaning to suggest. that's some 'real world' your living in. i hope you are not cleaning your rifle overly regular and marching around your living room in your housecoat and slippers. maybe, just maybe, you shouldn't be taking your media quite so literally?cheers!
here's a little insight into the 'real world' you can read the transript or just launch the video and being as blair takes his cue from bush. http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/15392701/
Sigh....yes, how very young and naive of me.
You're quite right, there is no need to come back but I'm having my first coffee of the day and I'm finding this interesting.
I am aware of the 500,000 figure, whether it is accurate or not I couldn't comment . I'm sure it's not too far off though. (I actually heard 700,000 recently.)
These weapons you're talking about? What type are they exactly? Biological? Guns? Nuclear? Because going back to your original point about bringing the army back, should someone decide to release a biological/nuclear weapon randomly in the street from a supply that is already here I don't really see how having the army here will help. If it's a random attack that can't be predicted then how will the army know where to be?
Guns have been here for a rather long time so again, not sure what the army will be doing to stop that (since the police are having enough problems). Unless you think that perhaps there will be a mass army march of 500,000 immigrants all with guns?... in which case I quite agree, the army would come in most useful, we can hardly fight that with harsh words, I just don't really see the liklihood of that particular scenario.
As you quite rightly point out, there is no way of knowing for sure what type of attack may come next but my opinion remains that it would be likely to be a sucide mission of some type because of the 'greater glory' idealism behind them.
My sentance was very badly phrased so you are quite right to pick me up on my 'very brave attitude.' I was referring to the fact that I am not going to scared witless every time a threat is made to the UK, that is what terrorists want so why give it to them? I am also not going to buy in to the same scare mongering that is going on in the media at the moment.
Have I ever been under fire? Well someone once fired a gun at a shop I was working in but it turned out to
You're quite right, there is no need to come back but I'm having my first coffee of the day and I'm finding this interesting.
I am aware of the 500,000 figure, whether it is accurate or not I couldn't comment . I'm sure it's not too far off though. (I actually heard 700,000 recently.)
These weapons you're talking about? What type are they exactly? Biological? Guns? Nuclear? Because going back to your original point about bringing the army back, should someone decide to release a biological/nuclear weapon randomly in the street from a supply that is already here I don't really see how having the army here will help. If it's a random attack that can't be predicted then how will the army know where to be?
Guns have been here for a rather long time so again, not sure what the army will be doing to stop that (since the police are having enough problems). Unless you think that perhaps there will be a mass army march of 500,000 immigrants all with guns?... in which case I quite agree, the army would come in most useful, we can hardly fight that with harsh words, I just don't really see the liklihood of that particular scenario.
As you quite rightly point out, there is no way of knowing for sure what type of attack may come next but my opinion remains that it would be likely to be a sucide mission of some type because of the 'greater glory' idealism behind them.
My sentance was very badly phrased so you are quite right to pick me up on my 'very brave attitude.' I was referring to the fact that I am not going to scared witless every time a threat is made to the UK, that is what terrorists want so why give it to them? I am also not going to buy in to the same scare mongering that is going on in the media at the moment.
Have I ever been under fire? Well someone once fired a gun at a shop I was working in but it turned out to
Good grief, of course anyone under fire would be scared, it's hardly contusive to a peaceful, stress free attitude is it now and I am certainly not saying I'd stare bullets in the face with a steely gaze.
Reacting to warnings is of course a very good idea. And a good start to that would be to analyse how credible the latest threat is. I leave this to the intelligence forces in this country, they are far more qualified that myself or you to do this since they will be in possession (one would hope anyway) of facts rather than speculation.
As far as I can see your arguments pander to the scaremongering that is happening. That is my opinion. Your arguments lose credibility when you attack with subtle name calling ('laid backs') and the patronizing attitude you adopted to Maxximus and myself. Just because someone does not agree with you does not automatically mean that they are wrong or indeed that you are. By all means, indulge in debate and speculation but lets keep it friendly as debates always look so much better without pettiness.
Anyway, I have now finished my coffee so I must get on. You have a good day.
Oh and you say, no need to come back. It is obvious we will not agree on this but it has still be interesting debating it.
Reacting to warnings is of course a very good idea. And a good start to that would be to analyse how credible the latest threat is. I leave this to the intelligence forces in this country, they are far more qualified that myself or you to do this since they will be in possession (one would hope anyway) of facts rather than speculation.
As far as I can see your arguments pander to the scaremongering that is happening. That is my opinion. Your arguments lose credibility when you attack with subtle name calling ('laid backs') and the patronizing attitude you adopted to Maxximus and myself. Just because someone does not agree with you does not automatically mean that they are wrong or indeed that you are. By all means, indulge in debate and speculation but lets keep it friendly as debates always look so much better without pettiness.
Anyway, I have now finished my coffee so I must get on. You have a good day.
Oh and you say, no need to come back. It is obvious we will not agree on this but it has still be interesting debating it.
Lets have a look at the real world then.
Certain areas of Afghanistan and Iraq are currently swaming with hostile forces and weaponry.
And you're suggesting we just pull out and come home to give them a chance to entrench themselves, build new training camps and regroup.
You're suggesting that troops can be usefully deployed in the UK - what is this martial law you're proposing? or just the forcible expulsion of anyone with dark skin?
Right now the most effective place for the army to be in order to defend UK citizens is right where they are.
Whatever you may think about our involvement ( and whatever about afghanistan, my opinions about Iraq are pretty unprintable) this is no time for knocking knees
Certain areas of Afghanistan and Iraq are currently swaming with hostile forces and weaponry.
And you're suggesting we just pull out and come home to give them a chance to entrench themselves, build new training camps and regroup.
You're suggesting that troops can be usefully deployed in the UK - what is this martial law you're proposing? or just the forcible expulsion of anyone with dark skin?
Right now the most effective place for the army to be in order to defend UK citizens is right where they are.
Whatever you may think about our involvement ( and whatever about afghanistan, my opinions about Iraq are pretty unprintable) this is no time for knocking knees
Ok China Doll I think we will have to agree to diagree, but reading between your lines I think you know where I am coming from really, except you still cannot take it on board that they could bring the fight on to the streets, and try to over-throw the Goverment. Is this not at all feasible? If it is, can't you see why we would need the Army? Enjoyed the debate anyway.
Afternoon Oldgit,
Of course I can see where you're coming from, I'm sure you can see my point too and we simply disagree is all.
I have to say that I do not think that fighting in the streets and overtaking the goverment situation is feasible. But if that ever did happen, granted, harsh words are not going to help much. However I think Addy makes a good point about getting the army home.
I also enjoyed the debate and will look forward to sparring with you again sometime.... who knows, maybe we might find something we agree on (and then I'd really feel sorry for whoever disagrees!)
Have a nice evening.
Of course I can see where you're coming from, I'm sure you can see my point too and we simply disagree is all.
I have to say that I do not think that fighting in the streets and overtaking the goverment situation is feasible. But if that ever did happen, granted, harsh words are not going to help much. However I think Addy makes a good point about getting the army home.
I also enjoyed the debate and will look forward to sparring with you again sometime.... who knows, maybe we might find something we agree on (and then I'd really feel sorry for whoever disagrees!)
Have a nice evening.
jake-the-peg
At first I was not going to waste my time replying to your recent post, but after reading that stupid remark you made about me proposing martial law, I thought I must respond, because I do not wish to be credited with statements I have never made.
Who suggested Martial Law? Can we not have our troops back home and in their stations, without Martial Law being introduced?
Why did you find it necessary to invent that remark about the forcible expulsion of anyone with dark skin? This is just a complete fabrication of your own colour conscious mind, brought on perhaps by that enormous chip weighing heavy on your shoulders.
Try not to be brain washed, come on do you actually believe that our troops are out in these hell holes protecting UK citizens? We have heard it all before weapons of mass destruction spring instantly to mind.
At first I was not going to waste my time replying to your recent post, but after reading that stupid remark you made about me proposing martial law, I thought I must respond, because I do not wish to be credited with statements I have never made.
Who suggested Martial Law? Can we not have our troops back home and in their stations, without Martial Law being introduced?
Why did you find it necessary to invent that remark about the forcible expulsion of anyone with dark skin? This is just a complete fabrication of your own colour conscious mind, brought on perhaps by that enormous chip weighing heavy on your shoulders.
Try not to be brain washed, come on do you actually believe that our troops are out in these hell holes protecting UK citizens? We have heard it all before weapons of mass destruction spring instantly to mind.
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