'Racist' Milwall Fans - Your View?

[andy-hughes]

There has been controversy about the reaction to players 'taking the knee' at a weekend game, where Milwall fans were heard to boo the players involved.

https://www.derbytelegraph.co.uk/sport/football/football-news/fa-launch-probe-after-millwall-4774697

It appears the FA are investigating the potential for action against the club for the 'racsist actions' of its fans.

Personally, I don't believe that showing your disapproval of an act of support for a social campaign - or a political organisation, depending on your viewpoint, equates to either not supporting that campain / organisation, or to actively advising your support of an opposite point of view.

Put simply, I don't believe that booing 'taking the knee' makes anyone a racist.

It's an assumption that has no basis in reason, and to me, it shows people being far too keen to look at a negative attitude to one behaviour, and ascribe it possessing a negative attitude to another, with no viable connection.

I am not a football fan, and I wouldn't ever boo anyone, or any action in public, but I do strongly dislike the pointless OTT woke-ism and self-righteousness of 'taking the knee' and I believe it has no place in our sports arenas, but if anyone were to accuse me of being a racist for expressing that view, we would be having serious words.

What are your views?

[Mamyalynne]

He's behind you!

[andy-hughes]

Ellipsis - // Andy, you have stated you knoe nothing about football, so possibly you you know nothing about Millwall fans and their reputation. If you did, you may well jump to conclusions about what lay behind the boos. //

I am not a football fan, but I am married to a fifty-seven years of support veteran fan and season ticket holder, so yes, i am aware of the Milwall fans' reputation.

// But as the story you linked to in the OP shows, the FA has not jumped to conclusions. They've launched an investigation, which is what is to be expected no matter which football club's fans were booing. //

As far as I am aware, and listening to Mrs Hughes watching football on screen with two of our grandsons on a Saturday, booing is as much a part of the enjoyment of a game as a pork pie and a Bovril - so, and this is the point I made, assuming that booing may make someone a racist is an assumption, otherwise why are they investigating?

// It's not clear why you think the FA already knows what their investigation will conclude. It seems to me that it's you that's jumping to conclusions, not them. //

I don't think I know what the investigation will conclude - the thrust of my argument is that the notion of an investigation into booing on the basis thatit 'might be racist' is a nonsense, and does not deserve the time of day.

I also pointed out Wayne Rooney's statement that it was 'disgraceful behaviour' - and frankly, I am not sure he is in a good position to condemn the behaviour of other people in football.

[andy-hughes]

Theland - // Some p!Ayers taking the knee must do so as they believe that they are doing some good, others will kneel just to go along with it.
Some racist fans will boo because they are racists, some wil boo as they believe the kneelers are racists, the accusers of white privilege,, and others ................. //

and the FA will 'investigate' and find what exactly?

How many Milwall fans, if asked by the FA, are going to agree that yes they booed because they are racists, and risk a life ban from their club?

[Mozz71]

I can also clearly.state Theland, that nobody bowed to a picture of Nelson Mandela or did they wave at a BLM banner.

[andy-hughes]

Mozz - // You'd be no fun at a panto Andy. //

I must amend my previous statement - I don't do booing in public situations, but when I am in a panto audience, where booing is tacitly encouraged, and part of the enjoyment, then I will make as much noise as anyone else.

[andy-hughes]

roy - // If there were any boo's then the cheering drowned them out...looks like the Millwall fans have made andy the victor on this occasion. //

I am not the 'victor' on this, or any other occasion.

The entire point I am making is that the assumption that disaproving of one situation makes the disaprover an automatic supporter of the contrary position is lazy assumption jumping and has no place in a modern society.

The fact that the circumstances revolve around an incident at a football game is of no relavence whatsoever.

[Theland]

Gosh this is cool :-)

[royfromaus]

Can't help but feel there are some disappointed Answerbankers on this thread.

[andy-hughes]

roy - // Can't help but feel there are some disappointed Answerbankers on this thread. //

Any suggestions as to who - and why?

[royfromaus]

Are you really that oblivious?

[andy-hughes]

roy - // Are you really that oblivious? //

Apparently!

But I may not be the only one - so how about some detail please?

[Togo]

Racist British? You're avin a larff.

https://www.thesun.co.uk/sport/football/13421573/demba-ba-racism-istanbul-paris-saint-germain-webo/?utm_medium=browser_notifications&utm_source=pushly

[Mozz71]

I suspect that, although completely disagree with, Roy is hinting that some of us were hoping there may be more booing going on so it could give us more reason for hand wringing.

Personally, I'd much rather see no booing from the crowd.

[Ellipsis]

This wasn't booing play, it was booing a race-related gesture. Some things that football fans do are definitely racist. Some things that football fans do are definitely not racist. And some things are not so clear-cut. So ...

> the thrust of my argument is that the notion of an investigation into booing on the basis that it 'might be racist' is a nonsense

Are you sure that it was definitely not racist?

[andy-hughes]

Ellipsis - // > the thrust of my argument is that the notion of an investigation into booing on the basis that it 'might be racist' is a nonsense

Are you sure that it was definitely not racist? //

Of course I'm not sure - how could I be?

But more importantly, how is the FA going to back up its premise that it is racist, with an 'investigation'?

The Thought Police are the invention of George Orwell, I don't think they work for the FA!!!

[andy-hughes]

Ellipsis - // This wasn't booing play, it was booing a race-related gesture. Some things that football fans do are definitely racist. //

Indeed they are - and some things are based on contempt for pointless ego-massaging and woke-ism, and I am perfectly happy to concede that this may have motivated some, if not all of the crowd.

What I am absolutely not happy with, is the assumption, based on no evidence whatsoever, that the booing is created because being against 'taking the knee ...', and expressing that contrary view, can only ever be the position of a confirmed racist.

[andy-hughes]

Mozz - // I suspect that, although completely disagree with, Roy is hinting that some of us were hoping there may be more booing going on so it could give us more reason for hand wringing. //

If that is true, and I would need Roy's confirmation that it is, then that would be a pity, because it is simply inflaming an already difficult situation simply to make mischief.

[Ellipsis]

What premise that it's racist? They're investigating, on the basis that booing a race-related gesture could have a racist motive. Much like throwing bananas onto the pitch could have a racist motive, or it might just be that the offending fan has a banana phobia.

[Mozz71]

Well Andy, I sincerely hope I've misread the situation and Roy did not mean that, as it shows the utter contempt he holds for anybody still supporting anti-racist statements.

[andy-hughes]

Ellipsis - // What premise that it's racist? They're investigating, on the basis that booing a race-related gesture could have a racist motive. Much like throwing bananas onto the pitch could have a racist motive, or it might just be that the offending fan has a banana phobia. //

Come on now, it's your turn to reach it seems.

No-one would deny for one moment that throwing banana skins on a pitch is a racist gesture, that is absolutely unequivocal.

My point is, booing what is fast becoming an embarrassing show of political correctness which was mawkish when it started in the USA, and looks utterly ridiculous over here - could be motivated purely by that perception, and the assumption that it is racist is based on assumption, not evidence, or clear motive.