Storm Ciara: Further Idiocy

[ChillDoubt]

...and placing Rescue workers/volunteers in heightened danger through lunacy:


https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-highlands-islands-51447226

It’s obvious from the statement by Lochaber Rescue Team that they’re fed up of ill-equipped morons endangering all concerned. As I said on the surfer thread, this needs to be made an offence.

[TheDevil]

Andy, if it's suggested that being rescued is made an offence, I think to inspect the logistics and potential appeal process is only natural.

[ChillDoubt]

Who thinks they need ice picks and crampons to climb a UK mountain? There is a lovely path going up Ben Nevis very easy climb. Trainers especially in summer are fine.
————
But you wouldn’t take into account the season and prevailing weather conditions/forecast before setting off?
Pretty poor effort at making excuses for them, the rescuers statement makes their stance pretty clear!

[andy-hughes]

TheDevil - // Anyhow, why are you putting a price on someones life? That's not the 'done thing'. //

You are taking your 'devil's advocate' stance to ludicrous extremes now, and stretching the argument past tolerable limits.

The points have been made and debated, to carry on simply baiting people is not debate, it's annoying.

[andy-hughes]

TheDevil - // Andy, if it's suggested that being rescued is made an offence, I think to inspect the logistics and potential appeal process is only natural. //

I don't believe that anyone, apart from you, has considered the ludicrous notion of being rescued made 'an offence'.

You are becoming tedious now - this is my last word on this subject.

[Prudie]

Anyone who can defend this on the basis that they walked Ben Nevis or Llanberis pass in trainers one summer's day is as stupid as those who did it in Winter and shows a complete lack of knowledge. I doubt a single member of a mountain rescue team would agree with you TD.

[Barmaid]

Even in summer the summit can be snow covered. The hiking in Scotland website makes it clear that winter requires specialist equipment.

In my munro bagging days I wouldn't have dreamt of going into the mountains without the right equipment.

[retrocop]

There are various codes of safety and conduct when attempting potentially hazardous pursuits. As they say,
'Rules are for the obedience of fools and ignorant and for the guidance of wise men'
I trekked up the goat track, (Snowdon) in my youth along with others on a properly supervised Outward bound course.We wore boots,cagoles,thich clothing and carried the obligatory 'goodie packs.' Half way up the mist came down and the weather seriously clagged up. We reached the cafe at the top and by then one of our cadets was hallucinating as a result of hypothermia. We covered him in a space blanket and made him eat his glucose pack in one go.
Fortunately we were not led by fools. It was bright sunshine when we left the 3 tonner back in the car park a few hours earlier.

[sunny-dave]

A nice try at a ‘reverse ferret’ by TD at 12:35 - however he completely ignores the precise difference between his post and mine :

He is using an unexpected ‘weather flip’ as an excuse for being caught out with inadequate equipment ...

... whereas I am saying that only a fool ignores the possibility of a weather change when making preparations for a winter ascent.

[Nical]

TD, I was interested in the 'most mountain rescues are dog searches' piece in your 12.39 post. I'd like to read more on that, do you have a link or a suggestion where to find one? Thanks.

[EDDIE51]

Unfortunately, you can not make gross/total stupidity an offence !!!

[Zacs-Master]

You can eddie, as per the examples given by (I think it was) Barmaid, earlier (not wearing helmets on a motorcycle and not wearing a seatbelt in a car).

[EDDIE51]

Nical . Most mountain rescue efforts are Dog Search's because the Dogs have a sence of smell , tens / hundreds of thousands of times more sensative than Humans ! They actually 'sniff out' the person who need to be resucued ! They can detect a human buried under more than 6 ft of snow !

[TheDevil]

SunnyDave, your answer implies that everyone knows the dangers of mountain terrains and the weather surrounding them. They don't.

It may have been a lovely summers day down at glen nevis. The boys may not have known the dangers. I myself have been half way up a mountain and turned back due to conditions. There is no shame admitting that the weather is turning for the worst so you need to retreat.

However not everyone knows this, or feels that it is OK to turn back. And if they do, sometimes they're already in a position where they need help. As I said.. Accidents happen, you can sometimes find yourself off the path, and it's important when doing so to know what actions to take, and not to be worried about what the general public think or the volunteers when they're rescuing you. Life and death has no price.

[ChillDoubt]

SunnyDave, your answer implies that everyone knows the dangers of mountain terrains and the weather surrounding them. They don't
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The only person I can think of who wouldn’t know the inherent and obvious danger of climbing the highest peak in the UK would be Stevie Wonder.....

[TheDevil]

Have you ever been to ben nevis Chilldoubt?

[Nical]

Eddie, thanks - I knew all that, and thought TD meant something else completely! I don't know why TD included that line in his post, it seems to make no difference to the cost of the Rescue Team, the work and effort involved - and has no bearing on the idiocy or otherwise of the person calling for help.

[ChillDoubt]

Have you ever been to ben nevis Chilldoubt?
.........
No, but I walked up Snowdon 18 months ago.
I took into account the prevailing weather conditions etc but STILL went prepared for inclement weather and possible untoward eventualities.
Had it been this time of year, in those conditions/forecast I wouldn’t have even set foot out of the house!!
Your stance is looking as idiotic as those who were rescued.

[TheDevil]

Me either, but I am very accustomed to mountain terrains and their climates. One time I drove all the way for fort William to climb ben nevis, got to the bottom and decided the weather was not good enough to climb so I drove home. And let me tell you I don't live in Scotland! A lot of people after taking the drive would just see how far they can go regardless of the weather. Doing this can soon lead to a rescue mission especially if you're unaware of the conditions and storms. All it takes is a bit of bravery, a lack of mountain sense and some peer pressure from your pals who didn't want to waste the drive up.

I feel sorry for these hikers. No one plans to get rescued and mocking those who do may stop others reaching out for vital help.

[TheDevil]

My "me either" was in response to "Had it been this time of year, in those conditions/forecast I wouldn’t have even set foot out of the house!!"

Of course I've climed Ben Nevis.

[Nical]

TD, how will 'mocking those who do [get rescued] may stop others reaching out for vital help' work? Do you think ABers aren't smart enough, having read all the responses here, to work out the right course of action if they were going mountain-climbing, hiking whatever?