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"Why do you feel the need to post items like this? " nobody forces your to read or reply, so whats your problem ?
10:40 Mon 24th Aug 2015
naomi24
Out of interest (this isn't an attack, I'm just curious), do you subscribe to the idea that all men are potential rapists?
I ask because I suspect (based on previous posts) that your stance is that you cannot trust any Muslim because you don't know how radical they are, so potentially they can all be extremists.
By the same token - do you treat all of us blokes as potential rapists?
Out of interest (this isn't an attack, I'm just curious), do you subscribe to the idea that all men are potential rapists?
I ask because I suspect (based on previous posts) that your stance is that you cannot trust any Muslim because you don't know how radical they are, so potentially they can all be extremists.
By the same token - do you treat all of us blokes as potential rapists?
As you probably know the Macedonian authorities have been blockading the passage of immigrants through their country. The police in the film are Macedonian and I suspect that by the time the blockade was lifted they were pretty fed up.
Of course one doesn't know the background to this (ehich makes the reason for posting it all the more baffling perhaps) but it's interesting to see that the Macedonian TV channel that uploaded it has adopted a "poor little us, not wanting our assistance" attitude.
I think as I said before that the experience for everyone in Gevgelija shows that, despite the best of intentions (perhaps), trying to hold back the tide is not necessarily the best policy. As the Hungarians may find soon.
Of course one doesn't know the background to this (ehich makes the reason for posting it all the more baffling perhaps) but it's interesting to see that the Macedonian TV channel that uploaded it has adopted a "poor little us, not wanting our assistance" attitude.
I think as I said before that the experience for everyone in Gevgelija shows that, despite the best of intentions (perhaps), trying to hold back the tide is not necessarily the best policy. As the Hungarians may find soon.
naomi24
Why?
Again - not attacking you. I'm simply curious.
I remember the (IMO) ridiculous statement by hardline feminists back in the 90s that all men are potential rapists.
"Most Muslims might not be actively ‘radical’ – but you don’t know what they’re thinking."
Couldn't that be said of men in general?
Most men aren't rapists, but you don't know what they're thinking.
My point is this - if we treat all people of a religion the same (and not just Muslims, but Christians, Hindus and Jews), then surely we should treat other demographics the same - because if we believe that someone is unable to exercise free will due to their religion, then why not due to their gender, race, sexuality etc?
I don't believe that your ordinary everyday Muslim operates under the same doctrines as hardline fundamentalists in the hills of Pakistan.
If that were the case, then all the Muslim women I've seen in Morocco in my visits to Marrakech would be dressed in Burkhas, and not dressed as they were...like they were auditioning for Girls Aloud.
Why?
Again - not attacking you. I'm simply curious.
I remember the (IMO) ridiculous statement by hardline feminists back in the 90s that all men are potential rapists.
"Most Muslims might not be actively ‘radical’ – but you don’t know what they’re thinking."
Couldn't that be said of men in general?
Most men aren't rapists, but you don't know what they're thinking.
My point is this - if we treat all people of a religion the same (and not just Muslims, but Christians, Hindus and Jews), then surely we should treat other demographics the same - because if we believe that someone is unable to exercise free will due to their religion, then why not due to their gender, race, sexuality etc?
I don't believe that your ordinary everyday Muslim operates under the same doctrines as hardline fundamentalists in the hills of Pakistan.
If that were the case, then all the Muslim women I've seen in Morocco in my visits to Marrakech would be dressed in Burkhas, and not dressed as they were...like they were auditioning for Girls Aloud.
AOG - "If you were a lone woman walking in a quiet isolated place and any man was following you, don't you think she wouldn't?"
That's not comparable behaviour is it?
Any man following a woman alone at night is not behaving in the way that men as a gender behave, so that really doesn't fly as an example.
That's not comparable behaviour is it?
Any man following a woman alone at night is not behaving in the way that men as a gender behave, so that really doesn't fly as an example.
sp1814
/// My point is this - if we treat all people of a religion the same (and not just Muslims, but Christians, Hindus and Jews), then surely we should treat other demographics the same ///
Muslims are treated the way they are simply because of the atrocities that have been committed throughout the world all in the name of Islam.
Religion is a choice, if such things are taking place due to one's religion, then if one does not want to be associated with such things, then the answer is to distance one's self from that religion.
If one is not prepared to see one's religion destroyed in such a way, then the answer is clear fight to remove those who are bringing it into disrepute, and it is this we see that is not happening.
/// My point is this - if we treat all people of a religion the same (and not just Muslims, but Christians, Hindus and Jews), then surely we should treat other demographics the same ///
Muslims are treated the way they are simply because of the atrocities that have been committed throughout the world all in the name of Islam.
Religion is a choice, if such things are taking place due to one's religion, then if one does not want to be associated with such things, then the answer is to distance one's self from that religion.
If one is not prepared to see one's religion destroyed in such a way, then the answer is clear fight to remove those who are bringing it into disrepute, and it is this we see that is not happening.
//Any man following a woman alone at night is not behaving in the way that men as a gender behave, so that really doesn't fly as an example.//
Just as SP’s analogy doesn’t fly as an example.
SP, your analogy doesn’t work simply because unlike Muslims, all men are not trained to think similarly, but actually it’s interesting that you’ve made that analogy because potty feminists aside, the only people I know who consider all men to be potential rapists are Muslims – which is why their women are covered.
Just as SP’s analogy doesn’t fly as an example.
SP, your analogy doesn’t work simply because unlike Muslims, all men are not trained to think similarly, but actually it’s interesting that you’ve made that analogy because potty feminists aside, the only people I know who consider all men to be potential rapists are Muslims – which is why their women are covered.
AOG - "Religion is a choice, if such things are taking place due to one's religion, then if one does not want to be associated with such things, then the answer is to distance one's self from that religion."
The resistance of IS is surely done from a (nominally) Christian standpoint. Does that mean that any Western Christian who does not approve of the bombing campaigns in Syria must renounce their faith forthwith?
The resistance of IS is surely done from a (nominally) Christian standpoint. Does that mean that any Western Christian who does not approve of the bombing campaigns in Syria must renounce their faith forthwith?
andy-hughes
/// That's not comparable behaviour is it? ///
/// Any man following a woman alone at night is not behaving in the way that men as a gender behave, so that really doesn't fly as an example. ///
Look Andy is it not possible that the man just happens to be walking home from a venue, just as the woman is, they both live in the same direction, but the man left a little later than the woman, hence the reason he is behind the woman and not following her intentionally?
Taking the assumption already mentioned that all men are potential rapists, then it is reasonable to assume that the woman would think that the man was following her, with evil intentions on his mind.
/// That's not comparable behaviour is it? ///
/// Any man following a woman alone at night is not behaving in the way that men as a gender behave, so that really doesn't fly as an example. ///
Look Andy is it not possible that the man just happens to be walking home from a venue, just as the woman is, they both live in the same direction, but the man left a little later than the woman, hence the reason he is behind the woman and not following her intentionally?
Taking the assumption already mentioned that all men are potential rapists, then it is reasonable to assume that the woman would think that the man was following her, with evil intentions on his mind.
andy-hughes
/// The resistance of IS is surely done from a (nominally) Christian standpoint. Does that mean that any Western Christian who does not approve of the bombing campaigns in Syria must renounce their faith forthwith? ///
That is an absolute ridiculous analogy to make even for you Andy.
Syria is not being bombed under the name of Christianity, and it is also factually incorrect seeing that Saudi Arabia, Jordan, the UAE, Bahrain and Qatar etc, have also joined in the airstrikes, and I don't think by any stretch of the imagination, you can class them as Christian countries.
/// The resistance of IS is surely done from a (nominally) Christian standpoint. Does that mean that any Western Christian who does not approve of the bombing campaigns in Syria must renounce their faith forthwith? ///
That is an absolute ridiculous analogy to make even for you Andy.
Syria is not being bombed under the name of Christianity, and it is also factually incorrect seeing that Saudi Arabia, Jordan, the UAE, Bahrain and Qatar etc, have also joined in the airstrikes, and I don't think by any stretch of the imagination, you can class them as Christian countries.
AOG - "andy-hughes
/// That's not comparable behaviour is it? ///
/// Any man following a woman alone at night is not behaving in the way that men as a gender behave, so that really doesn't fly as an example. ///
Look Andy is it not possible that the man just happens to be walking home from a venue, just as the woman is, they both live in the same direction, but the man left a little later than the woman, hence the reason he is behind the woman and not following her intentionally?"
It appears you are determined to defend this scenario, so let's make sure we are talking about the same thing.
Of course, it is perfectly possible for a man to follow a woman and behave in a completely innocent way. The first thing would be to keep an appropriate distance from the woman in front. The second thing would be to avoid eye contact if she turns round - in my case, I would cross the road to ensure that she was aware that I was not threat. It would be nice not to have to confirm non-verbally that a man is no threat to a woman, but in current times, it is sometimes necessary to do so.
"Taking the assumption already mentioned that all men are potential rapists, then it is reasonable to assume that the woman would think that the man was following her, with evil intentions on his mind."
I don't believe that assumption has been made - SP1814 asked Naomi if she thought that all men were potential rapists, which is not the same as stating an assumption either that they are, or that all women think that they are. So no, it is not reasonable for a woman to asssume that a man following her has evil intentions on his mind.
/// That's not comparable behaviour is it? ///
/// Any man following a woman alone at night is not behaving in the way that men as a gender behave, so that really doesn't fly as an example. ///
Look Andy is it not possible that the man just happens to be walking home from a venue, just as the woman is, they both live in the same direction, but the man left a little later than the woman, hence the reason he is behind the woman and not following her intentionally?"
It appears you are determined to defend this scenario, so let's make sure we are talking about the same thing.
Of course, it is perfectly possible for a man to follow a woman and behave in a completely innocent way. The first thing would be to keep an appropriate distance from the woman in front. The second thing would be to avoid eye contact if she turns round - in my case, I would cross the road to ensure that she was aware that I was not threat. It would be nice not to have to confirm non-verbally that a man is no threat to a woman, but in current times, it is sometimes necessary to do so.
"Taking the assumption already mentioned that all men are potential rapists, then it is reasonable to assume that the woman would think that the man was following her, with evil intentions on his mind."
I don't believe that assumption has been made - SP1814 asked Naomi if she thought that all men were potential rapists, which is not the same as stating an assumption either that they are, or that all women think that they are. So no, it is not reasonable for a woman to asssume that a man following her has evil intentions on his mind.
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