Crosswords3 mins ago
David Cameron Vows To Hunt Down 'monsters' Who Beheaded David Haines
The Prime Minister strongly indicates he is preparing to authorise military air strikes against Isil terrorists in Iraq and Syria as a second British hostage was named as Alan Henning.
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ChillDoubt - "Bring it on. Time to implement peace through superior firepower."
Do you actually read your posts before you submit them?
How can you possibly 'implement peace' by more violence?
Do you seriously imagine that these people are going to say - "Well, yes, you have superior firepower, what were we thinking of, we'll stop what we are doing now ... sorry and all that ..."
These people rejoice in the chance to die for their cause, and how many hostages do you think they will take and murder in retaliation?
Racheting up the violence to look hard and patriotic for the next election is not going to work for Cameron - he should stop taking up violence and start trying to talk other options - any other options but more death.
Do you actually read your posts before you submit them?
How can you possibly 'implement peace' by more violence?
Do you seriously imagine that these people are going to say - "Well, yes, you have superior firepower, what were we thinking of, we'll stop what we are doing now ... sorry and all that ..."
These people rejoice in the chance to die for their cause, and how many hostages do you think they will take and murder in retaliation?
Racheting up the violence to look hard and patriotic for the next election is not going to work for Cameron - he should stop taking up violence and start trying to talk other options - any other options but more death.
naomi24 - "Question Author
Andy, //he should stop taking up violence and start trying to talk other options//
Talk to whom?"
Any organisation that is acting in a way that creates global news will have a power structure.
An attempt at least to try and reach some common ground and avoid further deaths on either side has to be a better option than simply throwing missiles and bullets into the situation, which recent proves will solve nothing except to give the generals a real task to 'complete' - or more likely not.
Have Iraq and Afghanistan taught us nothing?
If Muslim extrremists hate the West because they see us as invaders who try and enforce our will onto them by violent military intervention, what can be solved by proving them right over and over again?
Andy, //he should stop taking up violence and start trying to talk other options//
Talk to whom?"
Any organisation that is acting in a way that creates global news will have a power structure.
An attempt at least to try and reach some common ground and avoid further deaths on either side has to be a better option than simply throwing missiles and bullets into the situation, which recent proves will solve nothing except to give the generals a real task to 'complete' - or more likely not.
Have Iraq and Afghanistan taught us nothing?
If Muslim extrremists hate the West because they see us as invaders who try and enforce our will onto them by violent military intervention, what can be solved by proving them right over and over again?
naomi24 - "A friendly chat around the table with a nice cup of tea might do the trick."
Yes, I appreciate that my approach appears naiive and soft, but I honestlyu believe it is better than simply throwing in more violence.
We are dealing with people who have not advanced culturally for seven hundred years.
The cultural gap between the extemists and the West is canyon sized, but that is not an excuse for refusing to address the bridging of it.
To send in bombs and troops is simply acting according to form for the terrorists, it's their recruiting dream, and it simply does not work.
"Insanity: doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results." - so said Albert Einstein, and history has done nothing to prove him wrong.
My approach may be naiive, it may be futile, but it beats the hell out of trying to bomb and shoot terrorists into submission - you might as well plait fog.
Yes, I appreciate that my approach appears naiive and soft, but I honestlyu believe it is better than simply throwing in more violence.
We are dealing with people who have not advanced culturally for seven hundred years.
The cultural gap between the extemists and the West is canyon sized, but that is not an excuse for refusing to address the bridging of it.
To send in bombs and troops is simply acting according to form for the terrorists, it's their recruiting dream, and it simply does not work.
"Insanity: doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results." - so said Albert Einstein, and history has done nothing to prove him wrong.
My approach may be naiive, it may be futile, but it beats the hell out of trying to bomb and shoot terrorists into submission - you might as well plait fog.
The difference is that this is not necessarily going to be "the West" v. ISIS, as there are promising signs of a broad coalition of countries including many in the region. That changes the narrative. Well, obviously ISIS will describe the local countries as merely puppets of the West, but rather fewer people will buy that explanation, so it seems more promising. In the meantime I'm not sure that there's anyone in ISIS we can actually set up formal negotiations with. And what would their position be anyway, and what "compromise" would they accept?
In general I'm all for pursuing the more peaceful option, but here I fear that even if it turns out to be any sort of success we'd still be left with an Islamic state of some size that also amounts to "the West" carving up the region artificially. Again. I don't think that would be any less of an interference in the region by the West, and ends up just giving more legitimacy to an organisation that should have none.
In general I'm all for pursuing the more peaceful option, but here I fear that even if it turns out to be any sort of success we'd still be left with an Islamic state of some size that also amounts to "the West" carving up the region artificially. Again. I don't think that would be any less of an interference in the region by the West, and ends up just giving more legitimacy to an organisation that should have none.
naomi 24 - "Andy, //We are dealing with people who have not advanced culturally for seven hundred years. //
If you know that, why do you think they're going to be interested in talking? They're not. There are no half measures for them - there is no compromise."
I don't know that there is no interest in talking, because it doesn;t appear that any attempts to do so are being made.
By definition, you cannot defeat terrorism by military means - remember warmonger Bush and his 'War On Terror ..." nonsense?
Terror is a concept, not a physical enemy - you might as well try and declare war on sunshine.
Military action will only ramp up the hostage murders, the bomb threats in the UK, and the dreadful rise in deaths - we simply cannot go down this path any further - there is no end to it, and no solution.
There has to be a better way - and dialogue may find it.
If you know that, why do you think they're going to be interested in talking? They're not. There are no half measures for them - there is no compromise."
I don't know that there is no interest in talking, because it doesn;t appear that any attempts to do so are being made.
By definition, you cannot defeat terrorism by military means - remember warmonger Bush and his 'War On Terror ..." nonsense?
Terror is a concept, not a physical enemy - you might as well try and declare war on sunshine.
Military action will only ramp up the hostage murders, the bomb threats in the UK, and the dreadful rise in deaths - we simply cannot go down this path any further - there is no end to it, and no solution.
There has to be a better way - and dialogue may find it.
These people combine the ideological evil of the Nazis with the savagery of Genhis Khan's mongol hordes. Even Al Qaeda didn't want anything to do with them. I'd suggest talking to them is about as pointless as trying to negotiate with a crocodile.
It's a sad fact that sometimes the only way to stop bad people doing despicable things is with physical force.
It's a sad fact that sometimes the only way to stop bad people doing despicable things is with physical force.
It's all very well saying we are going to hunt down these people - however where are they ?
They aren't conveniently barracked up at specific locations are they ? - where targeted air strikes would be effective .
If they are to be hunted down , then i'm afraid that the only effective way is to have boots on the ground - something which i beleive the Americans and British government aren't prepared to saction
They aren't conveniently barracked up at specific locations are they ? - where targeted air strikes would be effective .
If they are to be hunted down , then i'm afraid that the only effective way is to have boots on the ground - something which i beleive the Americans and British government aren't prepared to saction
Andy, you are contradicting yourself. In one breath you say “These people rejoice in the chance to die for their cause,” - so you clearly have some notion of the mentality we’re dealing with – and then in the next you say, “he [Cameron] should stop taking up violence and start trying to talk other options”.
What options? Only a couple of days ago the family of David Haines tried appealing to these barbarians – their response was to slaughter Mr Haines by hacking his head off. These are people who hate the west and western values with a passion, who fervently believe that anyone who doesn’t think as they do has no right to live, and who will not hesitate to crucify, behead, or otherwise dispose of the perceived enemy in any brutal fashion that suits their disgusting philosophy. Do you really think they’re going to listen to anyone? With madmen there is no compromise. The world’s more rational leaders – including Dave – are between a literal devil and the deep blue sea.
What options? Only a couple of days ago the family of David Haines tried appealing to these barbarians – their response was to slaughter Mr Haines by hacking his head off. These are people who hate the west and western values with a passion, who fervently believe that anyone who doesn’t think as they do has no right to live, and who will not hesitate to crucify, behead, or otherwise dispose of the perceived enemy in any brutal fashion that suits their disgusting philosophy. Do you really think they’re going to listen to anyone? With madmen there is no compromise. The world’s more rational leaders – including Dave – are between a literal devil and the deep blue sea.
naomi24 - I do completely understand your frustration at the evil with which the west is trying to deal - but the idea of 'hunting them down ...' is gung ho rhetoric which is meaningless and unhelpful.
Hunt them like they did Bin Laden - that sort of 'hunting down'?
We have to be realistic in our intentions, and the viability of acheiving them, so 'hunting down' anyone is a complete no-go.
Hunt them like they did Bin Laden - that sort of 'hunting down'?
We have to be realistic in our intentions, and the viability of acheiving them, so 'hunting down' anyone is a complete no-go.
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