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Tokenism
When the gorgeous Lorraine Pascal's cookery programme was first broadcast on BBC2 a couple of years back, a few right wing commentators accused the BBC of tokenism...because she was black.
Watched a few of her shows and to be honest, I didn't think the accusations had any validity.
She seemed capable in a Nigella Lawson kind of way (sultry hooded eyed glances to camera), and I made her sticky ribs and they were blinking great.
Now - there's a black finalist (Kimberley Wilson) in this year's Great British Bake Off, and I think she has a very strong chance of winning.
She knows her stuff (she talks with confidence about gluten strands etc) and she hasn't really put a foot wrong.
Thing I'm concerned about is that if she wins, are the 'usual bunch' going to scream 'tokenism' again?
On a related matter - exactly what do black people have to achieve for racists to stop using the 'T' word?
Watched a few of her shows and to be honest, I didn't think the accusations had any validity.
She seemed capable in a Nigella Lawson kind of way (sultry hooded eyed glances to camera), and I made her sticky ribs and they were blinking great.
Now - there's a black finalist (Kimberley Wilson) in this year's Great British Bake Off, and I think she has a very strong chance of winning.
She knows her stuff (she talks with confidence about gluten strands etc) and she hasn't really put a foot wrong.
Thing I'm concerned about is that if she wins, are the 'usual bunch' going to scream 'tokenism' again?
On a related matter - exactly what do black people have to achieve for racists to stop using the 'T' word?
Answers
Be elected President of the United States? Play for England at football (the racist shouts at Chelsea declined when Chelsea's own star players were black ) ? Win two gold medals in the London Olympics?
14:42 Sun 20th Oct 2013
no one noticed when a black guardsman is picked out from the lineup in any military parade, perhaps it can't be helped because he is on is own or maybe one or two others, however the camera will pick them out, as to Lorraine Pascal, she is a cook, a good one from what i have seen, who notices her colour, no more than i would notice the colour of any chef, if they are good what does it matter.
Good god! Does it matter what colour, creed, sexual persuasion anyone is as long as they fit the bill! This is just seeing racism where none exists but soon will do once people harp on about it. Tokenism what's that, stupid stuff in my book, people receive their credit etc by doing well whatever colour or persuasion they are. Stop dealing the race card when it's not called for.
Brenden, in a private firm, basically they can do what they like. If the bloke has been good at the job, then they may not want to lose him....also I can't see how he was promoted solely on his qualifications if all the applicants had them. I am a white middle aged female and during my last years at work had many jobs within the NHS that I was not qualified for (not clinical jobs) because the people interviewing knew my rep and knew that I could do the job.
"people receive their credit etc by doing well whatever colour or persuasion they are"
no they dont, there must be god knows how may jobs where people of equal quals went for but the ethnics were given priority and still do.
i've seen it happen but couldnt do or say anything, i know plenty of other people who have witnessed it.
i know people who have told me and friends that they were under no misconceptions and the pressure wasnt even subtle to pick the ethnic, or to make sure the ethnic got the post.
I remember a black guy we knew (yeah it does happen) told us he was getting lobbed out of RBS (IT project Manager,during the recent problems there) and i remember he said he reckoned hed get a job pretty quick because he was black and most big companies have quotas even though they probably wouldnt admit it
I know theres plenty of naive and blinkered people on here but please dont try and make out tokenism doesnt happen, it has and is and wont stop.
no they dont, there must be god knows how may jobs where people of equal quals went for but the ethnics were given priority and still do.
i've seen it happen but couldnt do or say anything, i know plenty of other people who have witnessed it.
i know people who have told me and friends that they were under no misconceptions and the pressure wasnt even subtle to pick the ethnic, or to make sure the ethnic got the post.
I remember a black guy we knew (yeah it does happen) told us he was getting lobbed out of RBS (IT project Manager,during the recent problems there) and i remember he said he reckoned hed get a job pretty quick because he was black and most big companies have quotas even though they probably wouldnt admit it
I know theres plenty of naive and blinkered people on here but please dont try and make out tokenism doesnt happen, it has and is and wont stop.
bazwillrun
But equally...aren't the white people who get where they are simply because they went to the right schools (no matter what grade they got).
David Cameron for instance?
Are therE also no white people who will not employ a black man, a woman of 'child bearing age' or an Asian if they can possibly help it.
Or is it all just one way?
But equally...aren't the white people who get where they are simply because they went to the right schools (no matter what grade they got).
David Cameron for instance?
Are therE also no white people who will not employ a black man, a woman of 'child bearing age' or an Asian if they can possibly help it.
Or is it all just one way?
Baz I was commenting on the content of sp's post, what you have highlighted is an entirely different kettle of fish. To me that IS racism and these firms are given "rules" to follow as far as I'm concerned. Like the Met Police who at one time were only recruiting ethnic minority candidates (I read), had it been white candidates only then they would have been hauled over the coals. There should be no favouritism of course but I can only think this is done to allay calls of "racism" and any legal problems it may encounter. Similar thing with choosing women over men or vice versa, everything should be done by suitability but it all goes on much to my distaste.
"But equally...aren't the white people who get where they are simply because they went to the right schools (no matter what grade they got). !
if the quals are equal the black or whatever is being picked because they are ethnic and to fiulfil quotas.
wanna make it fair..then toss a coin.
If you were in a lifeboat and it can take only one more person and theres two in the water, and to every intent and purpose they are identical in every single way except one is white and one s black...which one you going to get onboard ?
if the quals are equal the black or whatever is being picked because they are ethnic and to fiulfil quotas.
wanna make it fair..then toss a coin.
If you were in a lifeboat and it can take only one more person and theres two in the water, and to every intent and purpose they are identical in every single way except one is white and one s black...which one you going to get onboard ?
sp1814
First let me thank you for putting those right who didn't understand the little 'leg pulling' perhaps it is them who should start using their brains rather than criticising others.
Now regarding this:
/// Incidentally, AOG, your post of 15:33 contained 113 words...none of which addressed my question. ///
Just to be pedantic there were 91 words, and they WERE addressing your question, this one.
/// On a related matter - exactly what do black people have to achieve for racists to stop using the 'T' word? ///
I was addressing your insinuation that it was racist to use the "T" word.
First let me thank you for putting those right who didn't understand the little 'leg pulling' perhaps it is them who should start using their brains rather than criticising others.
Now regarding this:
/// Incidentally, AOG, your post of 15:33 contained 113 words...none of which addressed my question. ///
Just to be pedantic there were 91 words, and they WERE addressing your question, this one.
/// On a related matter - exactly what do black people have to achieve for racists to stop using the 'T' word? ///
I was addressing your insinuation that it was racist to use the "T" word.
have a look at any Indian, Bangladeshi Asian restaurant, including Chinese, hardly a white face in sight, apart from the diners, have a look at butchers, many in the capital are Asian owned, only Asians work in them. Estate agents recently featured in the programme on racism against blacks were all Asian, perhaps they didn't get around to the white estate agents who knows, they don't want black people for the property owners, it should cause a stink as that is overt racism. some protests have been made. I also know of blacks who don't like, discriminate against asians, and white, they will not employ either.
Legislate all you like, but quite honestly you won't stamp it out. They will get round the laws somehow. I posted the links to gumtree over renting property, or at least one's room to only Muslim, or only Christian, some seemed to think it is wrong, some said why should it matter, but if you discriminate in this way, say like only Islamic schools, how do you get people to integrate more and we become a much more inclusive society, some don't want it, and that includes non whites
Legislate all you like, but quite honestly you won't stamp it out. They will get round the laws somehow. I posted the links to gumtree over renting property, or at least one's room to only Muslim, or only Christian, some seemed to think it is wrong, some said why should it matter, but if you discriminate in this way, say like only Islamic schools, how do you get people to integrate more and we become a much more inclusive society, some don't want it, and that includes non whites
emmie
"have a look at any Indian, Bangladeshi Asian restaurant, including Chinese, hardly a white face in sight"
That's because there's a very strong tradition of these establishments employing from their families and local villages, because many of these places create menus based on family recipes or recipes local to a region of the homeland.
Same as Italian restaurants really. Or in fact any family run restaurant.
"have a look at any Indian, Bangladeshi Asian restaurant, including Chinese, hardly a white face in sight"
That's because there's a very strong tradition of these establishments employing from their families and local villages, because many of these places create menus based on family recipes or recipes local to a region of the homeland.
Same as Italian restaurants really. Or in fact any family run restaurant.
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