Quizzes & Puzzles116 mins ago
Why was the Stephen Lawrence murder any different from others? Discuss.
74 Answers
Why has this case created so much attention and will it continue to do so?
There is no question that this murder was a brutal needless murder, committed by one of a number of savage racist thugs.
There has been a conviction and two of the perpetrators are at last behind bars, but the police have stated that they will not close their file on this case until the others are also behind bars.
But one must ask, was this particular murder any more vicious than hundreds of others, which haven’t been given the same attention that this one has, why?
Even the hundreds of child murders or even mass murders have not been classed important enough as this one has to force a change in a law that has been part of English law for centuries, I refer of course to the double jeopardy law.
Because this law no longer exists due to this case, it means now that the state has the right to repeatedly send to trial a person until they get the conviction they seek, it also encourages police and prosecutors to act recklessly, attempting spurious or rushed prosecutions, reassured that there may be a second chance further down the line. In addition, a jury which knows of the case before it is sent for retrial.
This case has created mass media and in turn public hysteria, a change in law,
the need by the police to enter a person's residence and plant video and audio devices to record a person's activities, a situation where it seems the murder of a black person is deemed more serious than the murder of a white person, or the murder of a child or the mass murder of persons.
These are all serious concerns that I know others have voiced (perhaps not on AB,) but on radio phone-ins and on the street.
Can we now have a serious discussion on this, without the need for the usual insults and cries of racism, I am not asking for agreement with these concerns, but I wish for others to explain why this particular murder was any different than hundreds of others?
There is no question that this murder was a brutal needless murder, committed by one of a number of savage racist thugs.
There has been a conviction and two of the perpetrators are at last behind bars, but the police have stated that they will not close their file on this case until the others are also behind bars.
But one must ask, was this particular murder any more vicious than hundreds of others, which haven’t been given the same attention that this one has, why?
Even the hundreds of child murders or even mass murders have not been classed important enough as this one has to force a change in a law that has been part of English law for centuries, I refer of course to the double jeopardy law.
Because this law no longer exists due to this case, it means now that the state has the right to repeatedly send to trial a person until they get the conviction they seek, it also encourages police and prosecutors to act recklessly, attempting spurious or rushed prosecutions, reassured that there may be a second chance further down the line. In addition, a jury which knows of the case before it is sent for retrial.
This case has created mass media and in turn public hysteria, a change in law,
the need by the police to enter a person's residence and plant video and audio devices to record a person's activities, a situation where it seems the murder of a black person is deemed more serious than the murder of a white person, or the murder of a child or the mass murder of persons.
These are all serious concerns that I know others have voiced (perhaps not on AB,) but on radio phone-ins and on the street.
Can we now have a serious discussion on this, without the need for the usual insults and cries of racism, I am not asking for agreement with these concerns, but I wish for others to explain why this particular murder was any different than hundreds of others?
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Gromit
/// In a statement Mr O'Shea's mother Julie Brewer said: "We do not know why such a terrible thing happened, but what we do know is that this is not racially motivated as Danny was a popular boy with friends from all cultural backgrounds. ///
I was wondering when you would bring Mr O'Shea's mother's statement up, so much so that I initially planned to include it, but lacking the space decided to leave it out.
But I will now respond to it, It takes a certain class of person not to proportion blame against a particular type of person or persons who allegedly savagely slit the throat of one's son,
What a difference to some of Stephen Lawrence supporters, why one even remarked that unless the black community witnessed that these two killers received substantial prison sentences, there would be rioting on the streets.
/// In a statement Mr O'Shea's mother Julie Brewer said: "We do not know why such a terrible thing happened, but what we do know is that this is not racially motivated as Danny was a popular boy with friends from all cultural backgrounds. ///
I was wondering when you would bring Mr O'Shea's mother's statement up, so much so that I initially planned to include it, but lacking the space decided to leave it out.
But I will now respond to it, It takes a certain class of person not to proportion blame against a particular type of person or persons who allegedly savagely slit the throat of one's son,
What a difference to some of Stephen Lawrence supporters, why one even remarked that unless the black community witnessed that these two killers received substantial prison sentences, there would be rioting on the streets.
"What a difference to some of Stephen Lawrence supporters, why one even remarked that unless the black community witnessed that these two killers received substantial prison sentences, there would be rioting on the streets"
Which one was that then AOG can you put the statement in context and also when it was said?
Strange they have had 18 years to riot and they haven't. However I see you totaly ingore the dignity and reserve of his parents, which they have displayed for 18 years.
Which one was that then AOG can you put the statement in context and also when it was said?
Strange they have had 18 years to riot and they haven't. However I see you totaly ingore the dignity and reserve of his parents, which they have displayed for 18 years.
andy-hughes
Happy New Year to you also Andy.
I still have my doubt if this would have raised such hysteria had the victim been white, but that is my opinion.
What are your thoughts on the Danny O'Shea savage murder?
Do you think his name will be remembered by most, even the week after someone is jailed for his murder?
And will a memorial slab be laid down in his memory?
Happy New Year to you also Andy.
I still have my doubt if this would have raised such hysteria had the victim been white, but that is my opinion.
What are your thoughts on the Danny O'Shea savage murder?
Do you think his name will be remembered by most, even the week after someone is jailed for his murder?
And will a memorial slab be laid down in his memory?
because it was a despicable crime, by racist thugs, and the police fell down on the job completely. They let the criminals go effectively and it's taken 18 years to put it right. The parents have every right to be angry then as now, but it would seem they are not, but are grieving for a son that should have had a good life and grown into a good man, a pointless vile racially motivated murder, i hope the men rot in jail
I still have my doubt if this would have raised such hysteria had the victim been white, but that is my opinion. AOG.
--------------------------------
Why don't you wake up and smell what you're shovelling? Imagine the furore and public outcry had it been 4/5/6 black males who had set upon and murdered a white male and the initial investigation into it had been on a par with that of Stephen Lawrence.
You'd be rubbing your hands with glee!
--------------------------------
Why don't you wake up and smell what you're shovelling? Imagine the furore and public outcry had it been 4/5/6 black males who had set upon and murdered a white male and the initial investigation into it had been on a par with that of Stephen Lawrence.
You'd be rubbing your hands with glee!
AOG - my thoughts about the Danny O'Shea murder are that once again a young life has been senselessly lost for no apparent reason.
No i do not think he will be remembered in the way that SL was, and is, but as I opined earlier, i do not really have a handle on why some issues capture national attention, and others slip away almost unoticed.
The thought has to be that such incidents are so common now that they are barely headline news at all, and that is the real tragedy - for all of us.
No i do not think he will be remembered in the way that SL was, and is, but as I opined earlier, i do not really have a handle on why some issues capture national attention, and others slip away almost unoticed.
The thought has to be that such incidents are so common now that they are barely headline news at all, and that is the real tragedy - for all of us.
AOG Do you have a point it wasn't racist. Appaling terrible but unfortunatly just another statistic in London crime. No differen than so many others.
"It takes a certain class of person not to proportion blame against a particular type of person or persons who allegedly savagely slit the throat of one's son"
Yes it does, but it would take a terrible person to APPORTION blame when there is no reason to.
"It takes a certain class of person not to proportion blame against a particular type of person or persons who allegedly savagely slit the throat of one's son"
Yes it does, but it would take a terrible person to APPORTION blame when there is no reason to.
Gromit
/// Do you really believe that this Julie Hogg's murder should not have had a retrial? ///
Yes a retrial in certain cases can prove useful, but can we trust the powers to be to only attach it to certain cases, this law has protected the vast numbers of us for hundreds of years should we give up that protection on the strength of just a few emotional cases.
/// The first conviction after the abolition of the double jeopardy rule was of William Dunlop for the murder of Julie Hogg. ///
That may well be the case, but the alteration to the law was brought about by the request of Jack Straw.
/// But the study, headed by Judge Alan Wilkie QC, was initiated at Home Secretary Jack Straw's request following the 1999 Stephen Lawrence inquiry, which suggested a review of the double jeopardy rule. ///
/// Do you really believe that this Julie Hogg's murder should not have had a retrial? ///
Yes a retrial in certain cases can prove useful, but can we trust the powers to be to only attach it to certain cases, this law has protected the vast numbers of us for hundreds of years should we give up that protection on the strength of just a few emotional cases.
/// The first conviction after the abolition of the double jeopardy rule was of William Dunlop for the murder of Julie Hogg. ///
That may well be the case, but the alteration to the law was brought about by the request of Jack Straw.
/// But the study, headed by Judge Alan Wilkie QC, was initiated at Home Secretary Jack Straw's request following the 1999 Stephen Lawrence inquiry, which suggested a review of the double jeopardy rule. ///
Be prepared for another law change????????
/// The Attorney General is today reviewing whether the jail terms handed out to Stephen Lawrence's killers are 'unduly lenient'.///
/// The surprise move by Britain's top legal officer came after the trial judge suggested he would have doubled the minimum sentence of Gary Dobson and David Norris if the law had allowed. ///
http://www.dailymail....awrences-killers.html
/// The Attorney General is today reviewing whether the jail terms handed out to Stephen Lawrence's killers are 'unduly lenient'.///
/// The surprise move by Britain's top legal officer came after the trial judge suggested he would have doubled the minimum sentence of Gary Dobson and David Norris if the law had allowed. ///
http://www.dailymail....awrences-killers.html
Danny O'Shea will not be remembered because his assailent has been quickly captured. You will not now hear of it for several months until the case reaches court. The police have done their job well. In the case of Stephen Lawrence, his name is well known because his parents had to campaign, lobby and generally ashame the police to get them to do their job properly. And they have done this relentlessly for 18 years. No parent should have to go through what they have to get justice for their dead son.
I cannot see any motive for the mother of Danny O'Shea to state he had friends of all cultures and that her son's death wasn't racially motivated, if it wasn't true. She wasn't being dignified she was merely stating what she believes.
I cannot see any motive for the mother of Danny O'Shea to state he had friends of all cultures and that her son's death wasn't racially motivated, if it wasn't true. She wasn't being dignified she was merely stating what she believes.
aog, what is your beef ? what have you actually got against people with a different skin colour to yourself ?I can see from your avatar that you are a John Bull Englishman & so am I but the difference is that I cannot easily forget the role played by many races with different coloured faces who helped to save this country from being overrun in the last 2 wars that we had to endure & I am proud to stand beside them now. The facts are that a young man with a life stretching before him was savagely killed by racist thugs who cared for no one except themselves & their supposed superiority, they are beneath contempt & I do hope that they rot in jail & are never allowed out.
Ron.
Ron.
Gromit
/// Danny O'Shea will not be remembered because his assailent has been quickly captured. ///
Er, wasn't he savagely murders by not just one person, but a gang, just as in the Lawrence case..
/// A teenager has been viciously stabbed to death as he tried to flee a gang of youths. ///
I wonder if the police will so energetically pursue the rest of the gang of killers, as in the Lawrence case?
/// Danny O'Shea will not be remembered because his assailent has been quickly captured. ///
Er, wasn't he savagely murders by not just one person, but a gang, just as in the Lawrence case..
/// A teenager has been viciously stabbed to death as he tried to flee a gang of youths. ///
I wonder if the police will so energetically pursue the rest of the gang of killers, as in the Lawrence case?
whiskeryron
I know you tend to be rather over emotive, taking into account your post on how these killers should be disposed of, so I will put your comment regarding what I have against persons of a different skin colour, down to your emotions working over time again, instead of just accusing you of telling lies.
All I am asking here is why there doesn't seem to be a level playing field here.
I know you tend to be rather over emotive, taking into account your post on how these killers should be disposed of, so I will put your comment regarding what I have against persons of a different skin colour, down to your emotions working over time again, instead of just accusing you of telling lies.
All I am asking here is why there doesn't seem to be a level playing field here.
The question poster seems to forget the huge nation-wide story surrounding the murder of Tom ap Rhys Pryce.
He killers were quickly caught and brought to justice, so the story faded from memory.
The killers of PC Keith Blakelock were never caught, which is why his name is so easy to remember. Same with the killer(s) of Yvonne Fletcher.
Some stories are bigger than others, simply because due to circumstances, they get a 'wind beneath them'.
As a previous poster pointed out, the abduction of Maddy McCann was a HUGE international story and so was the murder of Meredith Kercher.
Some stories are bigger and more important than others. It's just the way of the world....let's try not to build any race-card derived conspriracy theory into this...let's just celebrate the jailing of these two and look forward to the inevitable jailhouse reprisal stories in the papers.
Actually, scratch that last bit. It's sufficient that they life in fear...no need for the act to be carried out.
He killers were quickly caught and brought to justice, so the story faded from memory.
The killers of PC Keith Blakelock were never caught, which is why his name is so easy to remember. Same with the killer(s) of Yvonne Fletcher.
Some stories are bigger than others, simply because due to circumstances, they get a 'wind beneath them'.
As a previous poster pointed out, the abduction of Maddy McCann was a HUGE international story and so was the murder of Meredith Kercher.
Some stories are bigger and more important than others. It's just the way of the world....let's try not to build any race-card derived conspriracy theory into this...let's just celebrate the jailing of these two and look forward to the inevitable jailhouse reprisal stories in the papers.
Actually, scratch that last bit. It's sufficient that they life in fear...no need for the act to be carried out.
// I wonder if the police will so energetically pursue the rest of the gang of killers, as in the Lawrence case? //
Good news AOG. The police are indeed doung an excellent job in this tragic case.
// Three more men have been arrested on suspicion of murder after an east London teenager was fatally stabbed in the neck.
Police said three men, two aged 29 and one aged 22, were all arrested at an address in the Isleworth area of west London on Thursday.
Three men, aged 43, 32 and 31, have all previously been arrested and bailed. //
http://www.bbc.co.uk/...gland-london-16193251
Good news AOG. The police are indeed doung an excellent job in this tragic case.
// Three more men have been arrested on suspicion of murder after an east London teenager was fatally stabbed in the neck.
Police said three men, two aged 29 and one aged 22, were all arrested at an address in the Isleworth area of west London on Thursday.
Three men, aged 43, 32 and 31, have all previously been arrested and bailed. //
http://www.bbc.co.uk/...gland-london-16193251
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