Is A Fair Trail Possible After So Long ?

[mikey4444]

I don't want to get into a debate about whether this man is guilty or not but the 60's are a long time ago. After the passage of over 50 years, is it possible for anybody to remember exactly where he was on a certain day ?

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-22806885

[daffy654]

The CPS obviously think so, otherwise he wouldn't have been charged.

[emmie]

the girls would.

[mikey4444]

Just seen my typo...trial of course !

[Sqad]

mikey.....my thoughts also, as these women will be in their late 60's and early 70's.............but as our legal experts have and will point out, the CPS must feel that they have a case.

[emmie]

no one forgets if they were assaulted sexually or otherwise, nor the person who did it.

[seadogg]

Its a shame that a guy of 81 should have to go through all this, especially the many who have been wrongfully accused in the wake of the Savile exposures.

But the law can show no fear or favour, nor would we want it to.

[chrisgel]

I tend to agree Mikey, a friend of mine was accused 20 odd years after an alleged incident of assault. The accuser said that such a thing happened on her birthday and that is why she new the date.
My friend was at a loss because he had no chance of providing an alibi for himself after all those years. Would you be able to remember where you were and what you were doing on a particular date 20 odd years ago.
Fortunately for my friend his wife has an excellent memory and managed to prove that they were both in Majorca on the date the offence was said to have taken place.

[New Judge]

No it is not fair.

In connection with some of the work that I do I see a number of people (witnesses and defendants) give evidence in court. Some of the events about which they testify are quite recent (perhaps a few weeks) and some maybe up to a year old. Many of these witnesses have difficulty recalling anything in any detail even when they were directly involved in the events and they were fairly recent.

It is absolutely outrageous to expect an 81 year old person (or his alleged victims) to recall events from half a century ago. Experiences of victims often become blurred with time, they also sometimes become embellished in the telling. This is especially so when the alleged victims are young (I believe they are between 12 and 16).

There may be some truth to these allegations, there may not. But if the conviction is to rely simply on the testimony of the alleged victims and the alleged perpetrator it would be most unfair (to both parties) to expect them to provide good enough evidence to support a conviction.

[mikey4444]

I am not suggesting that these older women have forgotten anything.
But in order to be a fair trial, it is important for the accused to be able to defend himself properly.

I stress that I am not suggesting that the trial does not go ahead, before the AB Sisters take the huff !

[mikey4444]

Bl**dy hell...me and The Judge agreeing about something !

[New Judge]

We live in strange times, mikey, strange times !!!

[emmie]

so essentially what you are suggesting is that he is an old man and shouldn't go to court, that the 12-16 year olds may have embellished the matter, surely the police, law, would consider this, and if they think there is a case to answer then proceed.

[Bazile]

If you have assaulted someone , you aint going to forget it , are you ?

I cant see the defence arguing that he should not be tried , because he cant remember where he was on 06/xx/19xx

[emmie]

nothing to being AB sisters, or getting the huff, but older men sometimes take advantage of young girls, that isn't too hard to imagine. He confessed to having bedded a thousand women over the years, and he was certainly a name in the day, popular and in the public eye.

[hc4361]

It cannot be proven unless there are witnesses or hard evidence such as a photo or film; or something written by the accused that points towards his guilt.
Even if he has a very distinguishing mark in an intimate place that the victims recall seeing, that would only prove they saw him in a state of undress, not when or where.

As always in a criminal trial the jury will have to be satisfied beyond reasonable doubt that he is guilty - the CPS belief that there is enough evidence doesn't count for much, such as in this very recent case:

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2336358/Sex-claim-MP-thrown-lesbians-lover-tells-lies.html

There are harrowing events in my own childhood that I remember vividly but I can't remember the year, let alone the date.

I am very glad not to be on the jury in this trial.

[Sqad]

Bazile.......depends what you mean by "assaulted" as if i had to recall putting or trying to slip my hand up a girl's skirt some 60 years ago.........I would be pushed.
I would therefore have no defense......she said i did and i couldn't argue as i couldn't remember.

No lads.......how many times has that happened to you .....60 years ago?

[mikey4444]

em...I have made it abundantly clear that I am suggesting nothing of the sort. I am merely questioning the possibility of a fair trial.

I knew the Sisters would be banging the jungle drums on this issue !

[emmie]

sadly i can remember all too well. Not the exact dates but the person, and so would they, if he did this.

[askyourgran]

An assault of any kind stays in the memory, but in some of the cases that are currently being looked into it may be hard to say otherwise after all this time, Her word against his. I still maintain that young women (not children) were up for meeting anyone famous, and they dressed and acted older than their age. It may not have been full sexual contact, one could say that the bandwagon is almost full but still rolling. I'm sorry for those who were traumatised by those who assaulted them, but as the OP says it was a long time ago, surely not all those who complained to the Police at the time were ignored.

[tamborine]

I never admitted to being 15 or under on a hot date. Its sad if men are persecuted by women who might have been as dishonest as me.