bio fuel

[zzxxee]

saw it today at my local garage can someone explain what it is and why its so much cheaper than petrol and diesel???

[Mortartube]

It is a type of fuel made form waste vegetable oil from restaurants etc. The oil is filtered and chemically treated to remove water and glycerin based products (which can foul the engine components). It can be used neat in some diesel cars or has to be partly diluted with normal diesel in others dependant on the fuel pump type and hoses etc. If not properly made it can cause corrosion of certain types of rubber hoses etc.

If you make it yourself you can use up to a certain amount in your own vehicle with no duty payable (I belive it is up to 1500 litres a year).

It is usually derived from WVO (Waste Vegetable Oil) although virgin veg oil is sometimes used.

[zzxxee]

so you can only use it in diesel engines and not petrol

[David Black]

It might be petrol substitute from sugar ethanol which is "Cheap" because there is no petrol tax on it but there is VAT.

Its not green though no matter what the media tells you. It is turning perfectly good food that people can eat into energy and is very very inefficient way to create energy.

A very dirty PR spin.

[Mortartube]

It could be ethanol which can be used in petrol engines. The fuel I mentioned is often called Bio Diesel.

Bio diesel is often made from a waste product (WVO) that used to be land filled so it is not depriving people of food.

In America there is a patent for a system that uses clear plastic tubes that grow an algae on the inside. The algae grows with moisture and sunlight. This yields a high amount of product owing to the large surface area inside the tube. The algae is then extracted and can make bio diesel. These tubes can be placed in areas unsuitable for conventional farming techniques.

The process doesn't always have to deprive people of food. Bio diesel from vegetable oil (if well made) has been found to be cleaner in the gas outputs than conventional diesel, with the exception of Nitrous Oxide, which can be brought to the same level as normal grade diesel with an adjustment in engine timing.

[zzxxee]

i will have to have a closer look at the sign if it says bio fuel or bio diesel

[David Black]

Mortartube trust me I am quite connected to some of this. The future of this business is in Africa where large tracts of land can be farmed for sugar cane and processed using existing technology.

Between cattle and sugar there will be less food going around for the locals but they will have jobs. Having said that the waste in the African food production chain is frightening.

The target market for the ethanol is the USA which will take tariff free ethanol from Africa where as Brazil pays 48c a US gallon.

[jake-the-peg]

Whether or not biofuels are green rather depends on what questions you ask.

In terms of carbon dioxide you are (mostly) recycling CO2 from the atmosphere - true crops require fertillisers but this is typically about 5 Gallons of Fuel per acre and you get about 200 Gallons of fuel per acre from Biofuels.

As David points out though there are issues about land use. This isn't necesarilly a "green" issue but it is still an important one.

The most important point though is that we do not have the land area to fulfill all our requirements with biofuels under existing technology. However there is very interesting work with algae and bacteria that might go a long way to address this so getting people used to the idea of biofuels now with what we have is important.

I think 'a very dirty PR spin' is a little harsh personally.

Whether the best bet is difficult politics and existing technology (Africa) or difficult technology and more stable politics (new crops) is a close call.

We'll probably end up with a mix of technologies - possibly including some Hydrogen. In the same way that we currently have a mix of Diesel and Petrol and a mix of electricity generation sources

[David Black]

Hydrogen as a power source being produced staright out of wind farm energy is interesting. I personally think the grid hooked up wind farms are a bit of a con too given their costs and the transmission losses.

But distributed power based on hydrogen does make sense.

Hydrogen as an additive in diesel fuel for trucks is something I have seen in Ontario and it cleans up that dirty fuel, is very efficient as a power source and cuts the emissions sharply.

Interesting times.

[Mortartube]

My personal opinion is that Hydrogen is the only way to go, once someone invents a very efficient fuel cell. But that would seriously upset the oil companies. A fuel that produces water as an exhaust product is the only sensible option.