law on randomly breathalizing staff

[lickquid]

Is it legal for a company to randomly breathalize members of its staff?
My company has issued a statement saying that it will start randomly doing this.
Where do we as employees stand on this matter, can we refuse??

[squarebear]

I think that's a great idea. We used to have a user who used to regularly come in after a few drinks on an afternoon and accidentally delete files from the main server.

Anything in place to stop this is a good idea.

If you've nothing to hide, why worry.

[Ethel]

If your work involves driving or using machinery, then it is probably perfectly legal for your employer to do this.

If you are sat at a desk all day it is debatable, unless there is relatively new law I am unaware of.

[chelle7272]

Yes lots of companies do this now.

And Ethel, it doesn't matter if you sit at a desk all day, as squarebear pointed out, you can still make errors if your affected by drink. Someone I know has just been fired for failing a random test, he's at a desk but in shipping and so his errors could be costly!

They do need to notify you that this is now their policy, which they have done.

Why worry unless you are all drunk at work!!

[Ethel]

chelle - I'd like to see the law or case you refer to.

I can only find reference to breach of human rights.

The difference between a desk job and manual labour/driving is obviously a health and safety issue.

[puddicat]

What would happen if you had been drinking the night before maybe heavily,it would still be in your system the next day wouldnt it,how would that affect your job?

[legend_vivo1]

Simple youd be in breach.
this has been common practice .
ethel any work can sack you for gross misconduct if they find youre under the influence of alcohol.
its usually in your contract somewhere .
drinking or drugs at work or under the influence of at work and its a straight gross misconduct instant dismissal.

nothing new been like this for years .

[chelle7272]

Ethel I did not refer to any case or law in my post. I do not need to. My company contract states I am breaching that contract if I turn up under the influence of drink or drugs. They have added a policy for random breath testing. Mine is not a manual job.
It is not only about health and safety but can be about a business protecting itself.
In haven't checked human rights and wouldn't because I don't beleive i have a human 'right' to turn up to my place of employment drunk, particularly if it will affect service users.

[legend_vivo1]

http://www.hse.gov.uk/pubns/indg240.htm#legal

[chelle7272]

Puddicat - yes if you were still under the influence it would affect your job. That is how the chap I mentioned in previous post got fired, failing a test the morning after.

[legend_vivo1]

http://www.hse.gov.uk/alcoholdrugs/alcohol.htm



This is common , turn up reeking of drink youll at very least be sebnt home , possibly warned , if its happened before probably sacked.

Simple enough tejams right if you want drink that much then you will lose your job

[redcrx]

surely its legal if they warn you about it first.

A bobby on foot patrol isnt using machinery or driving but you want to see them drunk?

I know of a case where a fireman (on call) went out to training as drunk as a skunk.

[Ethel]

Yes, chelle, I agree with you entirely.

But this could affect a person's private and social life - a few drinks the evening before does not necessarily impair of person's work efficacy, but could give a positive result on a random test.

This is the issue - the employer dictating what a person does in ones own time.

A person 'reeking of drink' or obviously inebriated is a totally different matter and is obviously gross misconduct.

[legend_vivo1]

ethel a few drinks the night before could still mean youre over the legal drink driving limit
what employers are saying is if your judgements impaired then they dont want you working.
simple isnt it.
if you dont agree get a job elsewhere

they dont make you work for them.

in russia due to high rates of alcoholism some factories made you do a breathalyser every morning , if you failed you didnt get clocked in .this was for all employees,

[lickquid]

Ok then, does it have to be written into your contract before the company can start the testing? (This was just sent via email to all staff in the company, out of the blue)
Is this not an infringement of human rights.
Also how can they deem what an acceptable limit is?
what if you had a few the night before and one at lunchtime?You could be over the limit.

[lickquid]

By the way, this is an office job not manual.

[legend_vivo1]

Your terms and conditions can be changed as long as they inform you beforehand.
needs of the business etc.

if you have a union they can maybe raise the matter but seems youre stuck.


drink at weekends then or moderation weekdays

[Ethel]

legend - I want to see the legislation that says random breath testing is legal. That is all.

I had to discipline my staff now and again for being unfit for work through drink, so I do know that is legal.

But random testing is a different kettle of fish.

I personally agree with it, but I still want to see the legislation that allows it.

[chelle7272]

You would have a disciplinary procedure to follow anyway in most places. You would have warnings before you were fired. you would have to fail several random tests - which to me would indicate you were drinking too much too often anyway, which is the point.

[legend_vivo1]

Screening: What is involved
More companies - particularly those in safety-sensitive industries - are using screening and testing as a way of controlling alcohol problems. It can be used in various ways, for example:

as part of a selection process for job applicants;
testing all or part of the workforce routinely, occasionally or on a random basis;
in specific circumstances, such as after an accident or incident, where there is evidence of drinking that contravenes the company�s regulations, or as part of an aftercare rehabilitation programme;
to monitor a particular problem, eg employees reporting for work with alcohol in their bloodstream from the previous evening�s drinking.
Alcohol screening is a sensitive issue. Securing the agreement of the workforce to the principle of screening is essential, partly because of the practical and legal issues involved. Screening is only likely to be acceptable if it can be seen to be part of a company�s occupational health policy and is clearly designed to prevent risks to others. Cost is another consideration because of the need to ensure the accuracy and validity of test results.

Screening by itself will never be the complete answer to problems caused by alcohol misuse and its results must always be supplemented by a professional assessment of the employee. Prevention is just as important and the guidance set out earlier in this booklet is relevant to all businesses, whether you decide to include screening or not.



read the HSE links ethel

theres a lot

screening would be breathalysers unless youre talking urine tests ??