Can Fines Be Transferred

[nailit]

My son has fines and court costs outstanding. I am also paying off my own fines and costs at the rate of 5 pound per week.
My son has no income so hasnt been able to pay. He now has letters threatening bailifs, imprisonment etc. for non payment.
Can his fines be added to my account? I dont want him to end up in a YOI and its no use threatening him with bailifs, he lives with his mother and has no possessions of his own to speak off. He's learnt his lesson with the law but simply cannot pay the fines. Im willing to pay if they can be added to my account...and I continue paying 5 pound a week until all is cleared....but I cannot pay BOTH simutaneously (10 pound p/w)
Thanks.

[nailit]

*Chortlesplutters???? what is it with the swear filter? I wrote l o l o l (without the spaces) mad....

[nailit]

kvalidir, think hes got about 160 pound left to pay.

[New Judge]

Just a couple of points of clarification:

Defendants under 21 will be sent to a Young Offenders' Institute if sentenced to custody.

The imprisonment period for a fine of under £200 is seven days.

[EDDIE51]

NJ ^^ does the release at the 1/2 way point apply to a 7 day sentence?
and does the fine remain to be paid after the prison term or does the 7 days pay it off?
nalit to be honest do you really think a week 'inside' would be more than your son could tolerate? have worked inside a prison and the main problem is boredom. If it meant no more worries about payment I would just tell him straight to do the weeks 'porridge'. It seems unlikely he will get himself sorted out otherwise and a week locked up might just make him see sense. Ever heard the phase 'tough love'?

[Jethro77]

As your son has no income and cannot pay the balance outstanding then I would have thought that the Court could deal with the matter by imposing a Supervised Attendance Order for an appropriate number of hours. Provided that he satisfactorily completed the Order the matter would be finished. If, however, he breached the Order then such could result in a custodial disposal.
Your son should contact the Court without delay to arrange a Hearing to deal with the matter as it will not go away.

[New Judge]

As far as I know, eddie, yes, the half way release applies to all determinate sentences and I cannot find an exception for extremely short sentences or those imposed for non-payment of fines.

Yes, the fine is deemed paid by the custodial sentence. As you say, a few days in the chokey might be the lesser of two evils here.

[New Judge]

Your suggestion is not an option open to courts in England and Wales, jethro. Custody is the only alternative if non-payment is sustained. Supervised Attendance Orders are a disposal available only to courts in Scotland as a way of dealing with non payment of fines.

[mrs.chappie]

Hi Nailit, someone has suggested a car boot sale to help raise the funds - I think this is an excellent idea. You could have a sort out of all your unwanted/unused stuff and ask friends and relatives to do the same - it's surprising how much folk accumulate over time.

Whatever you decide, good luck in getting it sorted.

[EDDIE51]

Well nalit there you have it 7 days reduced to 3 1/2 days. As you can't do 1/2 a day the 1/2 is not counted so it is just 3 days inside
Your son could be free of the fines by doing 3 days 'inside'
Could be less, if a sentence is due to end on a Saturday,Sunday or bank holiday Monday you get out the previous Friday. So if he is sentenced on a Wednesday he will be out by Friday breakfast time the same week. Only 1 full day inside and no more fine to worry about!
How much is your fine? with your knowledge of 'porridge' you could do the same. It would be a doddle for an experienced 'inmate' like you.

[New Judge]

Be careful before you go down that road, nailit.

The circumstances you explained about your son are that he has no funds and no income. If this is the case bailiffs will be unable to recover the debt from him. However, if you stop paying your fines bailiffs will be instructed in the first instance and they will try to recover the debt. This may mean them seizing any goods they can sell to meet the debt and this includes TVs, motor vehicles and the like. Prison is not an option you can select yourself. It is the last resort the court will turn to but only when all else has failed.

[nailit]

Many thanks guys for replies, all helpful and informative (as ever).
EDDIE, I know what you mean about tough love but nonetheless its still painful to see your offspring going down the same path as yourself. wouldnt wish prison on my worst enemy. Its not just the boredom of prison its also the other things like lack of privacy, been 'twoed up' with knobs and dealing with tattooed, skinhead thugs....AKA prison officers.
New Judge, ive got another two years of paying my own fines off. Have thought about not paying them and just doing a bit of time behind the door to get them knocked off. I dont really have anything of interest to bailiffs, no car or anything that would fetch much at auction,(I do have a humongous book collection but dont think they'd be interested in that) but I like my freedom to much. Prison, for any length of time, (days or years) is a scary thought. Been prison 4 times and every time its been an ordeal in one way or another.

[nailit]

Hyperthetical question.
If my son was issued a warrant for his arrest (for non payment) and he handed himself into a police station on a Friday, brought before the court on Monday, would he then be free to go as he would have spent 3 nights in custody?

[New Judge]

No.

Each area operates an "occasional court" on Saturday morning (no person can be kept in police custody for more than 48 hours without being brought before a court). So he would have to hand himself in after that court finishes (usually about noon).

This may not be a choice open to him anyway because if the warrant is issued, say, on a Monday morning he may be arrested within a day or two. The warrant would only be issued if he failed to attend in reponse to a summons and he would have no choice over when that appearance would be scheduled for.

[bednobs]

i can't believe the outstandingly bad advice you are being given about your son going to prison. You yourself know how difficult it is to get even a voluntary job if you have a prison record i presume your son has never worked, and is likely to be resigning himself to a life of unemployment if he goes to prison. He's just little to be saddled with that.

[lcg]

he needs to apply for benefits and stand on his own two feet. i appreciate you are trying to help, nailit, but you are also encouraging him to sit on his rear end and not take any responsibility for situations of his own making. he can claim benefits and he can also get a job if he wanted to. i am employed and so is my hubby (on fairly low incomes tho) - but we have not been financially responsible for our son since he was 16 (five years ago). we gave him fair warning and he got a job at 14 (only a paper round, but he did 4 consecutively to get stuff he needed and wanted and now he is at uni and working - paying for it all himself, as i did) because both of us have had to support ourselves since that age as well. what is your son's motivations for sorting himself out? answer: nothing if you pay his fines, his mum feeds and houses him and he commits crime to get the other stuff he wants. imho, your parenting is very skewed and you are doing him no favours. you cannot transfer fines, but you can give him a fiver if you want.....but he will probably end up spending it on other stuff by the sounds of things. i think the time has come for your son to grow up and get off his own butt.

[nailit]

Thanks for further replies guys.
Bednobs, thats my concern as well. If he does a bit of time, whether days, months or years it will affect him in the job market. I havnt been to prison since 2002 but even now it affects my ability to get work, paid or voluntary.
Icg, I appreciate what your saying but as a parent it doesnt take away the worry of seeing your child potentially serving time. And I take umbridge at your suggestion that my parenting skills are skewed. Also he doesnt commit crime to get the things he wants. His offence was for criminal damage. Not excusable but not the most heinous of crimes either.

[lcg]

my son also got fined - for a parking offence, not damaging other people's property (which may not be heinous crime, but it costs the taxpayer an awful lot of money to deal with - the victim, police and court time, probation and/or fines service etc., so it is not just the paltry fine itself that truly is at stake for this 'simple' offence). the ticket was only £40, but his student drinking habits meant that he could not pay it in time before it doubled. he then chose not to pay it when he got paid at the end of the month either because he was sleeping lots rather than getting off his a r s e and working in his summer holiday from uni. did i pay it? did i lend him the money? no i didn't - i had the money to do so at £40.....but i refuse to encourage his slovenly habits and drinking when he should be getting off his bum and working (like normal people do). so yes - i think your parenting is skewed. how will your son ever learn if his mother is useless and you try to over-compensate for this? the benefits system is there for a reason, and your son should claim his money, pay his fines and start to join the rest of the responsible adult population in being self-reliant and not blaming everybody or anything else for his woes. if further punishment and sanction is needed to propel him forward into doing this, i suggest you advise him calmly in what he needs to do ad is entitled to claim and then let him make his own decisons, and live by them.

[nailit]

Icg, you, of course, are perfectly entitled to your opinion and I entirely agree with you when you say //advise him calmly in what he needs to do ad is entitled to claim and then let him make his own decisons, and live by them.//
But not wanting my son to end up in prison does not make my parenting skills skewed. The best of parents I havnt been, Ive been a crap parent, but if I can do anything to prevent my child experiencing jail I will do it.

[EDDIE51]

nalit a sentence of 6 months or under is 'spent' and no longer needs to be disclosed to an employer (unless it is for a job that needs an enhanced disclosure) after 2 years.
So after 2 years your son would have a clean record if he did go to jail.
I understand the concern over him getting a record but as far as I can see there may be no alternative.
You have too long left paying your own fines for adding them to your account to be an option , even if it was possible.
From what you say there seems no chance of him getting a job or claiming benefit which would be the better way out of this.
He may just have to make the best of a poor choice.

[nailit]

Thanks for the info EDDIE. I fear you may be right about him having to make the best of a poor choice.