Another Young Life Taken On The Streets Of Our Capital.

[anotheoldgit]

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2391174/Ajmol-Alom-16-stabbed-death-knifed-teenager-19-arrested-murder.html

Yet another young man who apparently had a very good future ahead of him, murdered on the streets of our capital.

Why don't they make the penalty for the carrying of knives without proper cause, a minimum jail sentence of five years?

[friedgreentomato]

But you would have to stop every teenager and search them to find out if they were carrying.

A real shame as any death is!

[Octavius]

I’m not sure adding more time to the current legislation would be much of a deterrent for the most determined young thugs/murderers.

[sp1814]

I don't know whether raising the mandatory sentence would reduce the likelihood of kids running around with knives.

There's already a minimum 5 year sentence (for over 18 year olds) for those found carrying a firearm (without licence). I don't think that has had an affect on rising gun crime.

[douglas9401]

So do nothing then? Last man standing, cheap and effective.

Five year minimum seems unduly lenient to me.

[jim360]

No, of course we should try to combat knife crime, douglas. What a strange response! The point is that raising sentences in itself has no effect unless you actually catch the people to start with. We need to increase the rate of capture, and that is likely to see the rates of knife-carrying go down once the message "If you carry a knife, you will be caught" is established.

[sp1814]

douglas9401

No - I'm not suggesting that nothing be done. Just questioning the solution put forward.

Other solutions include intelligence-led stop and searches, funding of 'big brother programs', increased investment in apprenticeship schemes, increased investment in sports and social clubs etc.

Focussing on the punishment for carrying knives is an admission of defeat. It's like we only pay attention when it's too late. If we step in years before kids get to that stage, then the need for punishment is reduced.

That's why I spent a few years as a 'big brother' in a scheme in London. I saw no point in complaining about crime if I wasn't prepared to do something about it.

[LazyGun]

From a recent report commissioned in the US by "The Sentencing Project" on deterrence and the criminal justice system;

"While the criminal justice system as a whole provides some deterrent effect, a key question for policy development regards whether enhanced sanctions or an enhanced possibility of being apprehended provide any additional deterrent benefits. Research to date generally indicates that increases in the certainty of punishment, as opposed to the severity of punishment, are more likely to produce deterrent benefits. This briefing paper provides an overview of criminological research on these relative impacts as a guide to inform future policy consideration. "

So, it is unlikely that just hiking up the mandatory minimum sentence will have much deterrent effect. Far better to look at initiatives that increase the certainty of detection and punishment.

[Gromit]

There is currently a 4 year maximum. I do not know what the average sentence is, but if that isn't working I can't see a 5 year minimum making any difference at all.

[anotheoldgit]

/// and that is likely to see the rates of knife-carrying go down once the message "If you carry a knife, you will be caught" is established. ///

Perhaps they should utilise the controversial "Illegal Immigrant go home or face arrest" vehicle and replace the message with "If you carry a knife, you will be caught"?

But then wait a minute, you would get some complaining that it was offensive, because it was only patrolling certain Boroughs

[anotheoldgit]

Gromit

/// There is currently a 4 year maximum. I do not know what the average sentence is, but if that isn't working I can't see a 5 year minimum making any difference at all. ///

There is a difference between a maximum or minimum sentence being in force to them actually being implemented.

Any idea Gromit how many in 2013 have had 4 year maximum sentence for carrying a knife already served on them?

I will leave you to do a bit of Googling.

[jim360]

I never complained about the first poster campaign, so you're preaching to the converted there. The only problem I had with the anti-Illegal Immigrant poster campaign was that it was probably misleading, since there's no guarantee that such people will be caught... not a good thing, of course.

In terms of knife crime, I don't want to see a poster campaign because that's just words. The message should be enforced by action, i.e. increased arrest rates.

[naomi24]

According to the Daily Mail, a sentence of 5 years imprisonment for carrying a knife was decided back in 2006. I wonder what happened to that?

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-388545/Five-years-prison-caught-carrying-knife.html

[youngmafbog]

//but if that isn't working I can't see a 5 year minimum //

But no one gets a decent sentence. At least 5 years minimum would take them off the street not straight back on it.

If they are behind bars then they cannot offend. Perhaps they will also have grown up a bit.

In a decent Jail of course, not the cushy excuses we have here.

[jim360]

Perhaps the ones in Norway would suit you better?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Halden_Prison

With a recidivism rate far lower than in the UK, perhaps we should be making our prisons yet more "cushy", rather than less?

[sandyRoe]

I wonder how many of these killings don't result in a conviction? Would a targeted advertising campaign with a slogan like. 'If you stab someone you could be throwing away your own life', help reduce the numbers?

[Octavius]

Sandy, not sure about vans kerb crawling around London boroughs, but Operation Blunt 2 certainly has a similar message I think. Not sure where it is going or where its heard though.

Jim, with designer furniture and a sound studio, its a wonder they don't go back really! An interesting socilogical experiment, perhaps it is more empowering than painted block walls, with bread and water for tea?

[andy-hughes]

AOG - as usual I feel uncomfortable with the Mail's presentation of this tragedy - they always seem to make it look as though the death of a teenager like this is somehow more tragic because he was an attractive child with huge potential - as opposed to a scroat who overdoed in a gutter.

It's just how it comes over to me - they do it a lot.

[FredPuli43]

Sadly, young people carrying knives has become so common that it reminds me of what an officer in Hackney once told me about not wearing seat belts: "If we pulled in everyone for that, we'd never get more than ten yards from the station!" It's an offence, and has been since the Prevention of Crime Act, 1953, which covered all weapons and things made or adapted as such or intended for such use.

But the answer is never condign minimum punishments; hence the old story of pickpockets working the crowds at public hangings of pickpockets. If the police were able to stop and search everyone and pull them in for carrying a knife, the problem would virtually go away, because the detection rate would be so high that it would not be worth the hassle for anyone to carry one. The penalty is all but irrelevant.