Body & Soul4 mins ago
What are our rights? Repairing damage to car
Hi All
My husband is a builder. and one of the recent jobs he was working on - had a delivery of materials to the site. The chaps that work for him needed to move a vehicle that was in the way to allow the delivery of the materials from a crane onto the plot.
They picked up a car and moved it out of the way (using their muscle!)
The car is a small peugeot and old.. probably only worth about £500-£1000.
Anyhow - someone somehow made a small dent in the rear wing with their hand as the car was being moved.
We have no issue with blame - and are happy to repair it. But the owner is being a bit difficult (as she is obviously peed off!).
She wants ONLY peugeot to repair it and wants the whole rear wing and bumper replaced. Now I know a really good 'chips away' spray paint man who does all our fleet cars (BMWs and Audis etc) and he will do it for a lot less than a garage will.
Does she have the right to demand WHO repairs it - or can we get it done by anyone as long as they are good quality? A freelance individual is obviously gonna be cheaper than a garage - he has already seen the damage and agreed its a really small amount of work required...
We accept the blame - but dont want to then be ripped off trying to put it right!
THANKS
My husband is a builder. and one of the recent jobs he was working on - had a delivery of materials to the site. The chaps that work for him needed to move a vehicle that was in the way to allow the delivery of the materials from a crane onto the plot.
They picked up a car and moved it out of the way (using their muscle!)
The car is a small peugeot and old.. probably only worth about £500-£1000.
Anyhow - someone somehow made a small dent in the rear wing with their hand as the car was being moved.
We have no issue with blame - and are happy to repair it. But the owner is being a bit difficult (as she is obviously peed off!).
She wants ONLY peugeot to repair it and wants the whole rear wing and bumper replaced. Now I know a really good 'chips away' spray paint man who does all our fleet cars (BMWs and Audis etc) and he will do it for a lot less than a garage will.
Does she have the right to demand WHO repairs it - or can we get it done by anyone as long as they are good quality? A freelance individual is obviously gonna be cheaper than a garage - he has already seen the damage and agreed its a really small amount of work required...
We accept the blame - but dont want to then be ripped off trying to put it right!
THANKS
Answers
Liability, it appears is not an issue. The problem is "how much".
At law she has a duty to mitigate her loss (ie not spend more than...
At law she has a duty to mitigate her loss (ie not spend more than...
22:09 Wed 12th Oct 2011
Hi Joko
He will indeed fix the dent and the paintwork...
I have asked her to send me a copy of her peugeot quote and she is stalling. Says she is going to try another local company for a price too. I suspect she just called peugeot and asked them the price for a new bumper and rear panel rather than them inspecting it!
We could just offer her the cash equiv based on the chips away mans price.
The car was only moved by the length of a parking space or so.... not far.. but the delivery lorry was blocking the whole road and couldnt get the materials off the lorry. Yes its a bit extreme to pick up a car and move it - but it was necessary!
I also asked her to email me photos of the damage and she hasnt done that either!
He will indeed fix the dent and the paintwork...
I have asked her to send me a copy of her peugeot quote and she is stalling. Says she is going to try another local company for a price too. I suspect she just called peugeot and asked them the price for a new bumper and rear panel rather than them inspecting it!
We could just offer her the cash equiv based on the chips away mans price.
The car was only moved by the length of a parking space or so.... not far.. but the delivery lorry was blocking the whole road and couldnt get the materials off the lorry. Yes its a bit extreme to pick up a car and move it - but it was necessary!
I also asked her to email me photos of the damage and she hasnt done that either!
I would be inclined to offer her a take it or leave it deadline - then her only recourse is to claim through your or her insurance company. i personally would be LIVID if someone moved my car without permission and damaged it - no nosha it may not be an Audi or BMW but some of us have to make do with old bangers and you should see her point of view
With the questions she is asking of your guy it could be that she is trying to establish whether he is a legitimate professional who is going to do a proper job and is properly covered by insurance and traceable etc... if something goes wrong and she needs to take action against him.
If she is upset about her car being damaged already I imagine she wants to make sure it is fixed properly (not a quick patch job which is substandard and that won't last) and not put at risk of further damage which I can understand.
Given the relevant details she might be ok with it. I'd be a bit wary if I had a car which was damaged through no fault of my own and the people responsible tried to force me into using their mate/contact who's cheaper so to speak. Sometimes cheap is for a reason - not saying that's the case but I'm trying to see if from her perspective.
If she is upset about her car being damaged already I imagine she wants to make sure it is fixed properly (not a quick patch job which is substandard and that won't last) and not put at risk of further damage which I can understand.
Given the relevant details she might be ok with it. I'd be a bit wary if I had a car which was damaged through no fault of my own and the people responsible tried to force me into using their mate/contact who's cheaper so to speak. Sometimes cheap is for a reason - not saying that's the case but I'm trying to see if from her perspective.
I think the questions she's asked are perfectly acceptable and they are the sort of questions I would ask too in this instance. And I would be seriously peeved about the whole affair regardless of how old my car was or what shape it was in, I think it's a complete liberty to treat someones property like that (obviously you had your reasons but I'm just saying how I would view this). I think three quotes is very reasonable and that being the case, think the questions she has asked of your fella perfectly reasonable.
I have to say I agree with China and bednobs.
She is the innocent party in this and I would be very very annoyed if it had happened to me.
I would certainly not make anything easy for you or accept anything you offered without asking lots of questions about your 'chips away' man.
Wouldn't you be annoyed if someone, in your absence, manhandled your car and damaged it ?
She is the innocent party in this and I would be very very annoyed if it had happened to me.
I would certainly not make anything easy for you or accept anything you offered without asking lots of questions about your 'chips away' man.
Wouldn't you be annoyed if someone, in your absence, manhandled your car and damaged it ?
Perhaps she's asking these questions as she feels she's just one person dealing with a much larger company that won't really care. Maybe she's letting you know Nosha that she's determined not to be pushed away or fobbed off.
I must agree with some others here. I've had my 1984 car for 24 years and it's in immaculate condition, probably better condition than many cars that are five years old but never looked after. I would be very upset if it was properly and sensibly parked and several builders took it upon themselves to move it and caused damage. I would also be upset if you dismissed my car as "small...old....and probably only worth about £500-£1000".
I know you have a business to run Nosha but surely if a crane was so large that it couldn't drive down a residential street without properly parked vehicles needing to be moved, then the crane is in the wrong place and not the cars. In that case shouldn't your company make efforts to clear the road with the consent and assistance of the residents rather than just picking vehicles up and moving them?
I think this woman has a valid point. Perhaps your company should bite the bullet, meet her and come to some compromise which recognises the fact she has been inconvenienced.
I must agree with some others here. I've had my 1984 car for 24 years and it's in immaculate condition, probably better condition than many cars that are five years old but never looked after. I would be very upset if it was properly and sensibly parked and several builders took it upon themselves to move it and caused damage. I would also be upset if you dismissed my car as "small...old....and probably only worth about £500-£1000".
I know you have a business to run Nosha but surely if a crane was so large that it couldn't drive down a residential street without properly parked vehicles needing to be moved, then the crane is in the wrong place and not the cars. In that case shouldn't your company make efforts to clear the road with the consent and assistance of the residents rather than just picking vehicles up and moving them?
I think this woman has a valid point. Perhaps your company should bite the bullet, meet her and come to some compromise which recognises the fact she has been inconvenienced.
Liability, it appears is not an issue. The problem is "how much".
Have you had your dent repair man send a quote? You could get a similar company to also send a quote and forward them on. If they are in the same ball park that is good for you. Get them to answer the questions she has asked.
At law she has a duty to mitigate her loss (ie not spend more than necessary in repairing the vehicle). However, should this matter be litigated, it is for YOU to show that she had a choice and took the more expensive option. Thus if you can show she had less expensive choices, you should be able to prove this.
I also question whether you have pics of the damage? She needs to dislcose them because some of the damage (given what you have said about the state of the car) may not be recoverable from you.
Have you had your dent repair man send a quote? You could get a similar company to also send a quote and forward them on. If they are in the same ball park that is good for you. Get them to answer the questions she has asked.
At law she has a duty to mitigate her loss (ie not spend more than necessary in repairing the vehicle). However, should this matter be litigated, it is for YOU to show that she had a choice and took the more expensive option. Thus if you can show she had less expensive choices, you should be able to prove this.
I also question whether you have pics of the damage? She needs to dislcose them because some of the damage (given what you have said about the state of the car) may not be recoverable from you.
This really should be a matter which should go through your public liability insurance - your men have been negligent in mishandling her car, so she can claim against your insurers. It's unlikely to make any great difference to your next year's PL premium, it's not like motor insurance.
The questions she's asking are perfectly legitimate - and might well be the sort of questions I'd have asked when I worked in insurance liability claims a few years back. Yes you should tell her who your insurers are (you are obliged to, it's not an option), but yes you should get there first, and put in a report to them, not try to fob her off with a cheap repair. If you'd done that my old car (which was written off by vandals worth only £500) I would be livid. You say that you have accepted the blame for the actions of your employees so you have admitted liability - now let your insurance company handle it, stop arguing. It'll be your insurance company who decides how much the claim is worth and who repairs it - not you. You shouldn't be trying to deal with this yourself - the lady obviously knows what she is doing, whereas you sound like you are trying to get a cheap outcome.
The questions she's asking are perfectly legitimate - and might well be the sort of questions I'd have asked when I worked in insurance liability claims a few years back. Yes you should tell her who your insurers are (you are obliged to, it's not an option), but yes you should get there first, and put in a report to them, not try to fob her off with a cheap repair. If you'd done that my old car (which was written off by vandals worth only £500) I would be livid. You say that you have accepted the blame for the actions of your employees so you have admitted liability - now let your insurance company handle it, stop arguing. It'll be your insurance company who decides how much the claim is worth and who repairs it - not you. You shouldn't be trying to deal with this yourself - the lady obviously knows what she is doing, whereas you sound like you are trying to get a cheap outcome.
I would have said "you have a duty at law to mitigate your loss. Your loss is the reasonable cost of repair - if you can get the same standard of repair for less cost elsewhere and you know about this, you cannot insist on the more expensive option. If you do your damages will be limited to the cheaper option and you will have to make up the difference".
These things are fact sensitive. If this were a top marque (say a Bentley) requiring specialist repair, it might be that that would be appropriate. However it isn't. It is a Peugeot. It does not need to be fixed by Peugeot. (Indeed, if this went through the insurance company they would likely use a standard body shop rather than Peugeot).
These things are fact sensitive. If this were a top marque (say a Bentley) requiring specialist repair, it might be that that would be appropriate. However it isn't. It is a Peugeot. It does not need to be fixed by Peugeot. (Indeed, if this went through the insurance company they would likely use a standard body shop rather than Peugeot).
Thanks, Barmaid.
The law is the law.
I would have been outraged if it were me that this had happened to and would have been even more outraged if my car had been described as 'just an old peugeot'..but I guess outrage isn't what counts.
But maybe that's what lawyers are for...to take the emotion out of things and tell folks what the rules say.
The law is the law.
I would have been outraged if it were me that this had happened to and would have been even more outraged if my car had been described as 'just an old peugeot'..but I guess outrage isn't what counts.
But maybe that's what lawyers are for...to take the emotion out of things and tell folks what the rules say.
She may have a duty to mitigate the loss but she doesn't have to be railroaded into using a mate of the person who caused the damage. I'd certainly be suspicious is someone was trying to force me down that route.
She needs to get three independent quotes and choose the most suitable (which is not necessarily the cheapest). If the person who caused the damage wont pay for the repair, then she will have the opportunity to take them to court to recover her costs and, assuming they are reasonable costs, she will get refunded along with the court fees.
I don't think she's being unreasonable at all. From what you've said here I think it's actually you and your husband who are being unreasonable, given the circumstances.
She needs to get three independent quotes and choose the most suitable (which is not necessarily the cheapest). If the person who caused the damage wont pay for the repair, then she will have the opportunity to take them to court to recover her costs and, assuming they are reasonable costs, she will get refunded along with the court fees.
I don't think she's being unreasonable at all. From what you've said here I think it's actually you and your husband who are being unreasonable, given the circumstances.
Thanks barmaid.. Marking you as best answer...
Whilst all the other comments are appreciated... i am not railroading her to use a cheap and cheerful mate. He is a professional who runs his own business and has already inspected the car. he repairs all the fleet cars where i work and his service is excellent. Because he is a freelance individual he is cheaper than a garage - but provides equal if not better service.
I do understand she is livid - as I too would be.. But I do also feel she is using her anger to try to con us into repairing damage that is excessive and pay a high price as our punishment for the damage. The damage was accidental and due care was taken when moving the car. Accidents happen and we are not refuting who is to blame here. I just dont want to be landed with a £500 Peugeot garage repair bill when I know the car is worth little more and can be repaired to the same standard for £150.
So... thank you again barmaid... Just the advice I needed!
Whilst all the other comments are appreciated... i am not railroading her to use a cheap and cheerful mate. He is a professional who runs his own business and has already inspected the car. he repairs all the fleet cars where i work and his service is excellent. Because he is a freelance individual he is cheaper than a garage - but provides equal if not better service.
I do understand she is livid - as I too would be.. But I do also feel she is using her anger to try to con us into repairing damage that is excessive and pay a high price as our punishment for the damage. The damage was accidental and due care was taken when moving the car. Accidents happen and we are not refuting who is to blame here. I just dont want to be landed with a £500 Peugeot garage repair bill when I know the car is worth little more and can be repaired to the same standard for £150.
So... thank you again barmaid... Just the advice I needed!
I think someone else here said I do have to.. So will dig it out this weekend and scan it to email it to her.
To be honest.. I can see that yes I should be putting this all through the insurers as thats what they are there for... saves any argument too.. but the repairs are less than the premium! So I dont really see the point... surely they would handle the claim.. charge the premium - cost us more money than it would have otherwise and then increase our premiums next year due to the fact we have a claim on our policy...
To be honest.. I can see that yes I should be putting this all through the insurers as thats what they are there for... saves any argument too.. but the repairs are less than the premium! So I dont really see the point... surely they would handle the claim.. charge the premium - cost us more money than it would have otherwise and then increase our premiums next year due to the fact we have a claim on our policy...
Nosha -
Whatever opinion you and your employees place on the woman's car is completely incidental. Your workmen damaged the car so it's your responsibility to either repair or replace her property. It doesn't matter whether they accidentally damaged a wall, a TV set, a shed etc. Your perceived value of her property is academic. Your men damaged the woman's property so your PL insurance should pay.
I'm sorry but I think you are being unreasonable and very unfair. Your company tried to get a large item of plant down a residential road for which it wasn't suited. Your men then took it upon themselves to move someone else's property which they had no right to do and which they consequently damaged. Then, when the owner of the vehicle quite rightly insists that you either repair or replace her property you dismiss her car with your opinion that it isn't worth it. I pointed out above I've had my car for 24 years and I intend to keep it for another 20 years. Would you dismiss my car in the same way after damaging it? How do you know this woman's car isn't of great sentimental value to her? Simply because you throw money away on BMWs and the like doesn't mean that other people treat their own vehicles the same way. It's her car and that's all that matters.
Your moral duty as a decent and professional company is to repair this woman's car to her satisfaction. Using someone you know on the basis of your opinion of the low commercial value of her car is not acceptable. Perhaps you regard them as 'professional' but if they exhibit the same lack of respect and professionalism as you and your company then I wouldn't want them to do the work either. I can just imagine you and all your employees (including those clowns who moved the car) discussing the woman's car with comments like "It ain't worth spending money on" etc.
I was in business myself for many years and I just wouldn't have acted like you. Use your PL insurance to put this right rather than trying to dodge the issue. That's what the insurance is for - not just for you to satisfy the law then complain about increasing the premiums if someone deserves to make a claim! I think you are being most unreasonable and certain uncaring and unprofessional. I would be most concerned if I was having any dealings with your company.
Whatever opinion you and your employees place on the woman's car is completely incidental. Your workmen damaged the car so it's your responsibility to either repair or replace her property. It doesn't matter whether they accidentally damaged a wall, a TV set, a shed etc. Your perceived value of her property is academic. Your men damaged the woman's property so your PL insurance should pay.
I'm sorry but I think you are being unreasonable and very unfair. Your company tried to get a large item of plant down a residential road for which it wasn't suited. Your men then took it upon themselves to move someone else's property which they had no right to do and which they consequently damaged. Then, when the owner of the vehicle quite rightly insists that you either repair or replace her property you dismiss her car with your opinion that it isn't worth it. I pointed out above I've had my car for 24 years and I intend to keep it for another 20 years. Would you dismiss my car in the same way after damaging it? How do you know this woman's car isn't of great sentimental value to her? Simply because you throw money away on BMWs and the like doesn't mean that other people treat their own vehicles the same way. It's her car and that's all that matters.
Your moral duty as a decent and professional company is to repair this woman's car to her satisfaction. Using someone you know on the basis of your opinion of the low commercial value of her car is not acceptable. Perhaps you regard them as 'professional' but if they exhibit the same lack of respect and professionalism as you and your company then I wouldn't want them to do the work either. I can just imagine you and all your employees (including those clowns who moved the car) discussing the woman's car with comments like "It ain't worth spending money on" etc.
I was in business myself for many years and I just wouldn't have acted like you. Use your PL insurance to put this right rather than trying to dodge the issue. That's what the insurance is for - not just for you to satisfy the law then complain about increasing the premiums if someone deserves to make a claim! I think you are being most unreasonable and certain uncaring and unprofessional. I would be most concerned if I was having any dealings with your company.
Oh Andyvon how wrong you are...
I am asking about legal right... What are our rights when it comes to repairing damage that we caused. its not about emotion or sentiment....
To help clarify your view of the situation....
"Whatever opinion you and your employees place on the woman's car is completely incidental." ESTIMATED VALUE OF VEHICLE IS BASED ON THE CONDITION AND THE AGE OF THE CAR
Your workmen damaged the car so it's your responsibility to either repair or replace her property. YES WE ACCEPT THAT
I'm sorry but I think you are being unreasonable and very unfair. HOW? WE HAVE AGREED LIABILITY AND ARE TRYING TO FIND A COMPANT THAT CAN REPAIR IT AT A FAIR PRICE. I DO NOT BELIEVE A PEUGEOT GARAGE IS A FAIR PRICED OPTION
Your company tried to get a large item of plant down a residential road for which it wasn't suited. NO WE DIDNT. THE COMPANY DELIVERING THE MATERIALS DID. THE PLANT WAS NOT OURS.
Your men then took it upon themselves to move someone else's property which they had no right to do and which they consequently damaged. WE ACCEPT THAT
Then, when the owner of the vehicle quite rightly insists that you either repair or replace her property you dismiss her car with your opinion that it isn't worth it. I HAVE NOT DISMISSED ANY OPINION. IF THE CAR IS WORTH £500 AND THE REPAIRS ARE £500 EVEN HER INSURANCE COMPANY WOULD WRITE THE CAR OFF. FACT.
I pointed out above I've had my car for 24 years and I intend to keep it for another 20 years. Would you dismiss my car in the same way after damaging it? WHAT WOULD AN INSURANCE COMPANY DO. SENTIMENTAL VALUE OF A VEHICLE IS NOT ENTERED INTO.
How do you know this woman's car isn't of great sentimental value to her? Simply because you throw money away on BMWs and the like doesn't mean that other people treat their own vehicles the same way. DO I? I DONT OWN A BMW! NEVER HAVE! WOULD LOVE TO THOUGH!
Your moral duty as a decent and professional company is to repair this woman's car to her satisfaction. YES.. BEEN HERE BEFORE. I DONT DISPUTE THS!
Using someone you know on the basis of your opinion of the low commercial value of her car is not acceptable. NO. HE IS A PROFESSIONAL WHO HAS A VERY GOOD REPUTATION BUT NOT THE OVERHEADS OF A LARGE BRANDED GARAGE. HE DOES VERY GOOD WORK ACTUALLY. JUST BECAUSE HE IS CHEAPER DOESNT MEAN HE ISNT GOOD AT HIS JOB.
Perhaps you regard them as 'professional' but if they exhibit the same lack of respect and professionalism as you and your company then I wouldn't want them to do the work either. THERE IS NO LACK OF RESPECT. WE ARE TRYING TO SORT THIS OUT - NOT RUN AWAY AND REFUSE TO FIX IT.
I can just imagine you and all your employees (including those clowns who moved the car) discussing the woman's car with comments like "It ain't worth spending money on" etc. YEAH YEAH YAWN
I was in business myself for many years and I just wouldn't have acted like you. Use your PL insurance to put this right rather than trying to dodge the issue. That's what the insurance is for - not just for you to satisfy the law then complain about increasing the premiums if someone deserves to make a claim! I think you are being most unreasonable and certain uncaring and unprofessional. I would be most concerned if I was having any dealings with your company. WHAT IS THE Fluffing POINT PUTTING IN A CLAIM TO OUR INSURANCE POLICY IF THE CLAIM IS LESS THAN THE Fluffing POLICY EXCESS!
TELL ME.. If you had to make a claim on your own house policy for a broken window.. that would cost £100 to repair.. would you make a claim if your policy excess was £250
Jeesus!!
I am asking about legal right... What are our rights when it comes to repairing damage that we caused. its not about emotion or sentiment....
To help clarify your view of the situation....
"Whatever opinion you and your employees place on the woman's car is completely incidental." ESTIMATED VALUE OF VEHICLE IS BASED ON THE CONDITION AND THE AGE OF THE CAR
Your workmen damaged the car so it's your responsibility to either repair or replace her property. YES WE ACCEPT THAT
I'm sorry but I think you are being unreasonable and very unfair. HOW? WE HAVE AGREED LIABILITY AND ARE TRYING TO FIND A COMPANT THAT CAN REPAIR IT AT A FAIR PRICE. I DO NOT BELIEVE A PEUGEOT GARAGE IS A FAIR PRICED OPTION
Your company tried to get a large item of plant down a residential road for which it wasn't suited. NO WE DIDNT. THE COMPANY DELIVERING THE MATERIALS DID. THE PLANT WAS NOT OURS.
Your men then took it upon themselves to move someone else's property which they had no right to do and which they consequently damaged. WE ACCEPT THAT
Then, when the owner of the vehicle quite rightly insists that you either repair or replace her property you dismiss her car with your opinion that it isn't worth it. I HAVE NOT DISMISSED ANY OPINION. IF THE CAR IS WORTH £500 AND THE REPAIRS ARE £500 EVEN HER INSURANCE COMPANY WOULD WRITE THE CAR OFF. FACT.
I pointed out above I've had my car for 24 years and I intend to keep it for another 20 years. Would you dismiss my car in the same way after damaging it? WHAT WOULD AN INSURANCE COMPANY DO. SENTIMENTAL VALUE OF A VEHICLE IS NOT ENTERED INTO.
How do you know this woman's car isn't of great sentimental value to her? Simply because you throw money away on BMWs and the like doesn't mean that other people treat their own vehicles the same way. DO I? I DONT OWN A BMW! NEVER HAVE! WOULD LOVE TO THOUGH!
Your moral duty as a decent and professional company is to repair this woman's car to her satisfaction. YES.. BEEN HERE BEFORE. I DONT DISPUTE THS!
Using someone you know on the basis of your opinion of the low commercial value of her car is not acceptable. NO. HE IS A PROFESSIONAL WHO HAS A VERY GOOD REPUTATION BUT NOT THE OVERHEADS OF A LARGE BRANDED GARAGE. HE DOES VERY GOOD WORK ACTUALLY. JUST BECAUSE HE IS CHEAPER DOESNT MEAN HE ISNT GOOD AT HIS JOB.
Perhaps you regard them as 'professional' but if they exhibit the same lack of respect and professionalism as you and your company then I wouldn't want them to do the work either. THERE IS NO LACK OF RESPECT. WE ARE TRYING TO SORT THIS OUT - NOT RUN AWAY AND REFUSE TO FIX IT.
I can just imagine you and all your employees (including those clowns who moved the car) discussing the woman's car with comments like "It ain't worth spending money on" etc. YEAH YEAH YAWN
I was in business myself for many years and I just wouldn't have acted like you. Use your PL insurance to put this right rather than trying to dodge the issue. That's what the insurance is for - not just for you to satisfy the law then complain about increasing the premiums if someone deserves to make a claim! I think you are being most unreasonable and certain uncaring and unprofessional. I would be most concerned if I was having any dealings with your company. WHAT IS THE Fluffing POINT PUTTING IN A CLAIM TO OUR INSURANCE POLICY IF THE CLAIM IS LESS THAN THE Fluffing POLICY EXCESS!
TELL ME.. If you had to make a claim on your own house policy for a broken window.. that would cost £100 to repair.. would you make a claim if your policy excess was £250
Jeesus!!
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