What do you think of the Israeli pilots?

[Big Al1st]

Everynight on TV scenes of bombing are shown. Red Cross ambulances, UN observer posts and civilian flats being bombed. It would seem to me that the pilots are a bunch of hot heads who have been given a free rein, or they are obeying orders.
If the former then they should be court martialled. If the latter then the Israeli Government should be taken to task.
I appreciate that every country has a right to defend itself, and in war there many civilian casualties but I am beginning to think that some of these young? pilots are lusting for blood.
I wonder what they would be like if they did not have the freedom of the skies, would they be so brave then?
I am getting sick to my heart of what I am seeing and feel I have to get it off my chest.
Before any one comments I am not taking sides with any one in this conflict. Hezbollah rockets are just as bad but surely the pilots have the means to identify their targets. They have the freedom of the air.

Stands back and awaits flack

[Dizzieblonde]

Isn't there something in the news about them killing 4 UN peaceforce people earlier today, even though they had warned them they were there and told them not to fire on them?

[Big Al1st]

Hi Dizzie, Thats correct. Thats what started me thinking. UN Secretary General said Israel did this on purpose. Hence my question, were the pilots obeying orders or have they the free rein to clobber anybody anything Rgds Al

[Dizzieblonde]

I was going to say they might have genuinely not known, but I've just read that the UN team told them ten times - and they still got bombed. Strangely, it was also a precision guided missile, so it was hardly an accident. The Israeli PM says they regret the incident, and there'll be an investigation, but it all sounds a bit suss.

I'm just surprised the rest of the world seems to be placidly accepting it - makes me wonder if the plan all along is to let Israel 'win'.

[jump79]

I guess when there is a war (or an invasion in this case), there are no rules. Usually, the USA would intervene back in the days when it had some sort of credibility (and an intelligent leader), and the result would be some control over the situation.

Israel seems to be bombing Lebanon recklessly without targets, in an attempt to scare all its neighboring countries by its show of might (the message being something like, 'if anyone else kills our soldiers or attacks us, they'll get the same response or worse'). It seems to be forgetting though that when/if all this de-escalates, there will be much greater paranoia and mistrust towards Israel and not just from its immediate neighbors (also making peace in the region practically impossible). A lot like what the USA is experiencing now.

[The Big Gill]

The UN forces have been in this area for about 30 years, and their positions are clearly identified and well-known to the Israelis. The Israelis consider them ineffective, and wish to create a 'buffer zone' in South Lebanon. They're clearing out the Lebanese civilian population; do you think they're trying to clear out the UN as well?

[Loosehead]

Hezbollah place themselves among civilians deliberately so they can cry foul when they are hit. It's known as human shielding. The pilots are obeying orders. Note they also drop leaflets first to tell the civies what's going to happen.

[Dizzieblonde]

If it's correct that Syria and Iran are supportive of the Hezbollah, and the US have been keen for quite a while on dealing with the two countries - as part of the whole 'axis of evil' business - do you think it's possible that the reason the West isn't intervening so strongly is because they are just waiting for Israel to do the job for them?

[Ralph]

The pilots are obeying orders, they don't climb into an F16 with some bombs and a compass bearing to drop them on, everything is meticulously planned. That would imply that responsibility for this either goes to or heads towards the top.

The UN were probably hit on purpose so that no country would be prepared to send a UN peace-keeping mission or even observers, so the Israelis will now be free to do as they want in southern Lebanon.

If the Israelis want a buffer zone between themselves and Lebanon, they should evacuate northern Israel. What gives them the right to drive citizens of a seperate and sovereign nation from their lands to make themselves feel better? They really are behaving like spoilt children that have grown up into obnoxious bullies, and their patriarchal figure (USA) stands behind them encouraging them to kick the other guy while he's down for a little while longer.

I don't get it even now. Normal people wouldn't let this happen, let alone continue.

[keyvan]

Israel has in half a century repeatedly, arbitrarily and arrogantly violated international laws, and as long as it implements �two eyes for an eye, one mouth for a tooth� the so called �anti-Israeli� sentiments will remain! The same goes for the anti-American sentiments, as long as USA continues with its arrogant and self-righteous actions around the globe!

So much for a measured response by the israelis !!!

http://fromisraeltolebanon.info/

[brachiopod]

Just to back up and emphasise what Ralph said;

The pilots fly missions with pre-determined targets and let loose, as someone earlier put it, "precision-guided bombs", that are not necesarily targeted by the pilots themselves.
They do not simply 'fly around for a bit looking for a target'.
The words 'accuracy' and 'precision' however, in terms of aircraft routing, navigation and bomb trajectory, is in terms of geographic positioning and spacial co-ordinates.
A modern fighter-bomber can approach a target at supersonic speeds with pin-point accuracy, it can fire missiles, (often controlled from forward ground positions or even from back at base), with millimetere accuarcy to exploit a weakness in a fortification or bunker etc.

However, if no-one has done their research, or they simply don't give a stuff, these weapons can target a hospital, house or school with equal, lethal accuracy. These missiles are accurate, not clever, they don't know the difference between a legitimate military target and a kindergarten.

In 1999, the Chinese Embassy in Belgrade, (Serbia), was bombed by the US by accident using "precision targeted missiles". This was because through poor intelligence and pure negligence, the "mission planners" punched in the location of the Chinese Embassy, mistakenly believing it was the location of their intended target. Rumours circulated soon after that the US so-called intelligence had used a tourist map of Belgrade City Centre to plan their attacks - the 'cartoon'-type map that exaggerates the 'places of interest'.

So, yes, the pilots are simply "doing their job" - they neither select their targets or 'pull the trigger' as such - so I hope it makes them sleep that much easier whilst they are instrumental in raining down death and destruction on innocent civilians.

[brachiopod]

ps.

"Stands back and awaits flack"

Pilots of supersonic aircraft don't really worry about flack anymore, Big Al - it's the anti-aircraft 'surface-to-air' or 'air-to-air' missiles you need to look out for !!

;o)

[Big Al1st]

I agree with most of what was said thank you.
However with regard to leaflets being dropped warning people to get out, there have been instances where people fleeing have been hit.
The UN post has been there for years and after repeated pleas to top the shelling they still got hit.
With respect to the clever bombs ect, I dont believe that the pilots have been told to hit ambulances ect. I believe that they have a fair amount of freedom. With the lack of Anti Aircraft defences and fighter planes, the Israelis can take more time in identifying targets.
I think the orders are "if anything looks suspicious get it"
It could be years of pent up frustration at Hezbollah that has taken away any moral or humanitarian feeling that Israel may have had.

I am disgusted at Bush and Blair for allowing this to go on.
Thank you all for interesting comments, catch you later Al

[matt66]

How do you know that the pilots of the bombing planes are no enjoying and relishing every minute of it. they are israeli pilots and their main aim in life is to destroy all the arab landowners around them.

[maxximus]

agree with most of what has already been said, and as the u.n. post has been there for years and is apparantly clearly marked on all israeli military maps it seems suspicious at best that it's coordinates could have accidently been programed into the fighter jet. also it would seem intentional that civilian apartment blocks being stationary targets would also be preprogramed into the fighters, but this does not explain the slew of ambulances and civilian vehicles that are not stationary unless they were parked for a long period of time. it would seem the hot head pilot theory applies, it is only their visual that could determine a moving target, or not. after years of fighting children throwing rocks and homemade bombs, i would suggests they are a bunch of young men getting their first real opportunity to fully exploit the use of their high tech weaponry with as already said, full freedom of the skies, with no consideration towards the thousands of innocents whose lives they are destroying.