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Section 18 With Intent
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I'm currently a serving soldier of 16 years (Chef), upon till this event i have never been in trouble with the law. I've had a decent career and now hold the rank of Sergeant. I got into a relationship with a civilian women at work. A good few years younger than me but never the less, she was a lovely. Unfortunately her taste in partners wasn't as nice and she suffered some domestic violence. One weekend we arrange to meet up and had by all accounts a lovely day out shopping and coffees. Stupidly we continued to text after she got home and her boyfriend got hold of her phone and proceeded to pretend to be her. He arranged to meet me that night. Fortunately for me the lady called her friend and the friend contacted me and informed me not to meet as it was him and he had a bat or large piece of wood.As the boyfriend didn't no what car i drove, i was able to drive past the meeting point and as warned he was there waiting with a weapon. Because i didn't show, he called and began threatening me with violence. He was happy to inform me that he had served time for assault and new were on the camp i lived. Because his girl friend worked on camp he also had a camp pass to gain access. This all happened on a Sunday night, the following Friday i had two long time friends come up to stay for the night and we went out to the local pub. I had been warned that both her and the boyfriend would be out that night as it was her birthday. I spoke to the girl and asked if it was better that i go some where else but she seemed content that there would be no trouble.
We arrived at the pub at about 1930 hrs and a few other gents whom i work with arrived and all was going well. I had at this point, spoken to my friends and told them that he would be out. I asked them to watch my back and if they see him attempting to come over to me, to stop him and send him away.
Approximately 2130 hrs her and the boyfriend arrived and they sat at the other side of the pub near to the exit. A few times i walked past to go outside for a fag and every time i went back in, he was giving me evil eyes.
At about 2300 hrs i went to the bar and was chatting to some bloke, the boyfriend came up next to the gent i was talking to and whilst waiting for the round i had order i continued to talk to the gent. But every time i turn her boyfriend was there just looking starring at me. Stupidly i bit, and asked him if he had some thing he wonted to say to me, he replied "I have plenty to say to you" I told him to come over and he refused and told me to come to him. I therefore gave out the drinks i had brought and picked up my pint and walked around the stranger i had been talking too. I need to point out that I've had about 5 pints, but i genuinely thought we could come to some sort of agreement, as i hadn't enjoy looking over my shoulder the last few days.
I don't recall the whole conversation, but it was calm at the beginning,
i need to point out that to my left is the bar and to my right is a wall, the gap being approx 1 meter. there was also a lot of people behind me.
The boyfriend again threatened me "I'll stab you and then do her". As if it was rehearsed the girl came around the corner and tried to take him away. he tried to pull back towards me and i just reacted. I could see his hole body. I honestly can't say what i did as it happen so quick but i either put my hand up instinctively to protect or to push away. But in my hand was a full pint glass, one of the long narrow ones. Next thing i new he was pulling me to the floor. My friends realized what was happening at the bar and intervened, they never took sides just split us up and i was taken outside. I waited outside for the police, my hand was pretty badly cut and i had to receive hospital treatment I was not arrested till the Sunday morning. The boyfriend had seven stitches to his neck and a few butterflies. I haven't been charged as yet, but was arrested for Section 18 with intent, any advice
We arrived at the pub at about 1930 hrs and a few other gents whom i work with arrived and all was going well. I had at this point, spoken to my friends and told them that he would be out. I asked them to watch my back and if they see him attempting to come over to me, to stop him and send him away.
Approximately 2130 hrs her and the boyfriend arrived and they sat at the other side of the pub near to the exit. A few times i walked past to go outside for a fag and every time i went back in, he was giving me evil eyes.
At about 2300 hrs i went to the bar and was chatting to some bloke, the boyfriend came up next to the gent i was talking to and whilst waiting for the round i had order i continued to talk to the gent. But every time i turn her boyfriend was there just looking starring at me. Stupidly i bit, and asked him if he had some thing he wonted to say to me, he replied "I have plenty to say to you" I told him to come over and he refused and told me to come to him. I therefore gave out the drinks i had brought and picked up my pint and walked around the stranger i had been talking too. I need to point out that I've had about 5 pints, but i genuinely thought we could come to some sort of agreement, as i hadn't enjoy looking over my shoulder the last few days.
I don't recall the whole conversation, but it was calm at the beginning,
i need to point out that to my left is the bar and to my right is a wall, the gap being approx 1 meter. there was also a lot of people behind me.
The boyfriend again threatened me "I'll stab you and then do her". As if it was rehearsed the girl came around the corner and tried to take him away. he tried to pull back towards me and i just reacted. I could see his hole body. I honestly can't say what i did as it happen so quick but i either put my hand up instinctively to protect or to push away. But in my hand was a full pint glass, one of the long narrow ones. Next thing i new he was pulling me to the floor. My friends realized what was happening at the bar and intervened, they never took sides just split us up and i was taken outside. I waited outside for the police, my hand was pretty badly cut and i had to receive hospital treatment I was not arrested till the Sunday morning. The boyfriend had seven stitches to his neck and a few butterflies. I haven't been charged as yet, but was arrested for Section 18 with intent, any advice
Answers
1 to 15 of 15
erm.... you need a lawyer - that I think is the best advice I can give. . Clearly you will be looking at self defence - and I am pretty sure this is decided as a fact by the jury (rather than as a matter of law by the judge) and yo need to hire someone ie a lawyer to put that over as needed. and you need him quig - I dont think this is going to go away
11:07 Thu 07th Feb 2013
erm.... you need a lawyer - that I think is the best advice I can give.
.
Clearly you will be looking at self defence - and I am pretty sure this is decided as a fact by the jury (rather than as a matter of law by the judge)
and yo need to hire someone ie a lawyer to put that over as needed.
and you need him quig - I dont think this is going to go away
.
Clearly you will be looking at self defence - and I am pretty sure this is decided as a fact by the jury (rather than as a matter of law by the judge)
and yo need to hire someone ie a lawyer to put that over as needed.
and you need him quig - I dont think this is going to go away
My interview went very well, i explained everything that happened leading upto the night and the event itself, I explained it exactly as i have explained it here. i had a solicitor from the public defenders office.
I did not smash the glass and then attack him, When i went back to the pub to apologizes to the land lady, she said that in 18 yrs in the business she had never seen anything like it, she explained that she could normally see a fight starting but in my case we were simpley talking and then all hell broke loose. one person said that i sort of went to slap him away but had the full glass in my hand. I didn't think i had hit him with the glass, but that night in the hospital i asked the doctors if they thought the injures were from a glass and they said yes. I believe i tried to slap or push him away but had the glass in my hand. based on my injuries it looks as if the glass broke and slid over my hand cutting all the top of my hand.. My lawyer after the interview told me that if i am charged with sect 18 with intent then he would advise "not guilty" as based on my interview i clearly had no intent, based on not meeting on the sunday, asking friends to keep him away etc...
What makes things worse for me is that what ever i am a charged with, if i am charged. I can only accept 99 hours community service and a fine. I will lose my job, pension everything. I will even be sacked if i get a suspended sentence...
I did not smash the glass and then attack him, When i went back to the pub to apologizes to the land lady, she said that in 18 yrs in the business she had never seen anything like it, she explained that she could normally see a fight starting but in my case we were simpley talking and then all hell broke loose. one person said that i sort of went to slap him away but had the full glass in my hand. I didn't think i had hit him with the glass, but that night in the hospital i asked the doctors if they thought the injures were from a glass and they said yes. I believe i tried to slap or push him away but had the glass in my hand. based on my injuries it looks as if the glass broke and slid over my hand cutting all the top of my hand.. My lawyer after the interview told me that if i am charged with sect 18 with intent then he would advise "not guilty" as based on my interview i clearly had no intent, based on not meeting on the sunday, asking friends to keep him away etc...
What makes things worse for me is that what ever i am a charged with, if i am charged. I can only accept 99 hours community service and a fine. I will lose my job, pension everything. I will even be sacked if i get a suspended sentence...
my advice is the same as above - get legal representation. Also, don't go out with other blokes girlfriends and when warned that someone is waiting to bash you with a plank, don't go just to see if he is. Also, if said person wants to bash you with a plank and you know they are going to be at the same pub as you, stay at home.
Like many of these sorts of questions on here there's a big long explanation of the lead up and then a very imprecise summary of the actual event.
He came out of nowhere, I don't remember exactly what happened, in a flash...
All of these come up again and again and that makes things a bit difficult.
You can claim self-defense whilst still having struck the first blow if you had a realistic fear for your own immediate safety and had no other way out.
It's difficult to claim this when you're saying things like it all happened so quick.
If someone says (rightly or wrongly) that you did smash the glass you'll be in a heap of trouble as that might be taken as evidence of intent and there is some pretty strong sentencing guidance on "glassing".
here's the sentenceing guidelines
i would image a lot will turn on what the witnesses say
You really need a lawyer's advice we can only really show you the guidlines and generalities we can't give you any idea on your personal situation from only hearing your side of events
He came out of nowhere, I don't remember exactly what happened, in a flash...
All of these come up again and again and that makes things a bit difficult.
You can claim self-defense whilst still having struck the first blow if you had a realistic fear for your own immediate safety and had no other way out.
It's difficult to claim this when you're saying things like it all happened so quick.
If someone says (rightly or wrongly) that you did smash the glass you'll be in a heap of trouble as that might be taken as evidence of intent and there is some pretty strong sentencing guidance on "glassing".
here's the sentenceing guidelines
i would image a lot will turn on what the witnesses say
You really need a lawyer's advice we can only really show you the guidlines and generalities we can't give you any idea on your personal situation from only hearing your side of events
Firstly thanks for answer, But i would like to point out that the relationship was not sexual. I was simply her friend, I advised her on such things as the help she would get if she left him (benefits calculator etc).
I never set out to hurt this man, but based on what i new about him and the week leading up to the event, i believed he was capable of his threats.
the guy served time for assault, but still is happy to walk down the street to meet me with a weapon at 1930 hrs. doesn't that show hes learned nothing from his previous punishment.
If some one has repeatedly threaten u and then makes an aggressive move towards you then surely most people would reach out to protect themselves, probably using there strongest hand.
People on here are talking like it was all calm and plenty of time to think. The guys threaten to stab me, i can't see his hole body or his right hand. he could well of pulled out a knife or bladed.
I never set out to hurt this man, but based on what i new about him and the week leading up to the event, i believed he was capable of his threats.
the guy served time for assault, but still is happy to walk down the street to meet me with a weapon at 1930 hrs. doesn't that show hes learned nothing from his previous punishment.
If some one has repeatedly threaten u and then makes an aggressive move towards you then surely most people would reach out to protect themselves, probably using there strongest hand.
People on here are talking like it was all calm and plenty of time to think. The guys threaten to stab me, i can't see his hole body or his right hand. he could well of pulled out a knife or bladed.
The law understands that people are not calm in these circumstances. The test for self-defence is not whether what was used was, in fact, only that amount of force necessary. In the cold analysis in a courtroom it may not have been, but we have to be realistic. If the defendant under attack, or in reasonable fear of being then and there attacked, uses such force as appears to him, in the agony of the moment, to be reasonable and necessary, that is to be treated as the most compelling evidence for self-defence. He can't be expected to weigh to a nicety the precise degree of force needed.
I thought the account was OK
and thought it may be useful to print out for your lawyer
in case he needs more details
also the extraneous details - you know 'as I went into the pub I thought of Jane Austen etc...' are useful as cue-dependent memories - that is they act as triggers, when the details fade.
The number of times ABers give advice to posts beginning ; I dont usually drink and when I do, I hardly ever draw a gun/letoff a grenade/ beat someone's brains out
and we think Ah but he did, that night
and you know, you have to learn that when you go out drinking you keep your hands to yourself
we all have to do that, but not many of us get indicted for serious crimes
and thought it may be useful to print out for your lawyer
in case he needs more details
also the extraneous details - you know 'as I went into the pub I thought of Jane Austen etc...' are useful as cue-dependent memories - that is they act as triggers, when the details fade.
The number of times ABers give advice to posts beginning ; I dont usually drink and when I do, I hardly ever draw a gun/letoff a grenade/ beat someone's brains out
and we think Ah but he did, that night
and you know, you have to learn that when you go out drinking you keep your hands to yourself
we all have to do that, but not many of us get indicted for serious crimes
I was charged with section 18 with intent, for the lad who got hurt and then section 39 for the bar maid who received a small cut on her arm for the glass.
Is it possible that the cps would allow me to plea guilty to two counts of ABH,
the reason I'm asking that is:
if i plea to anything higher i lose, my job, pension, £83,000 even before i step in court, i then lose my wife and son as my wife will not stay in england on her own and will go back to Bulgaria with my son, he is autistic and she said she wont be able to coup on her own.
I've no record
Sgt in the Army
Award the long service good conduct medal, (15 yrs unbroken good conduct)
plus ABH gives me at least a tiny chance off keeping my job, I still be disciplined by the Army and will surly receive a 5 yr promotion ban or a reduction in rank, in other words my career will be over.
Surly the CPS will be satisfied
Is it possible that the cps would allow me to plea guilty to two counts of ABH,
the reason I'm asking that is:
if i plea to anything higher i lose, my job, pension, £83,000 even before i step in court, i then lose my wife and son as my wife will not stay in england on her own and will go back to Bulgaria with my son, he is autistic and she said she wont be able to coup on her own.
I've no record
Sgt in the Army
Award the long service good conduct medal, (15 yrs unbroken good conduct)
plus ABH gives me at least a tiny chance off keeping my job, I still be disciplined by the Army and will surly receive a 5 yr promotion ban or a reduction in rank, in other words my career will be over.
Surly the CPS will be satisfied
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