Sink The Bismark. Was This A War Crime?

[10ClarionSt]

Many sailors who were at this battle said the Bismark had raised the black flag of surrender before being torpedoed by HMS Dorsetshire. Was this tantamount to a war crime by the British Navy? It's speculated that Churchill wanted the Bismark sunk in repraisal for the loss of HMS Hood. Many of the crew on Dorsetshire protested about firing torpedos into Bismark. But like many things in WW2, I suppose we will never really know the full story.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1391220/Should-sunk-Bismarck-Tormented-sailor-reveals-German-sailors-tried-surrender-ship-destroyed-costing-2-000-lives.html

[jno]

shanye, a baroque cathedral is easily confused with an armaments factory.

[emmie]

can you tell us how many death camps we set up, how many millions did we send to the gas ovens, atrocities are committed in war time, as well as peace time, they go on today in countries against their own citizens, how do you explain that.

[jno]

emmie, "they did it worse!" isn't a defence. And the concept of a war crime was around well before WW2.

The British did invent concentration camps, so that's something you can take pride in.

[shaneystar2]

We set up a good few death camps ourselves during the Boer war .
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Second_Boer_War#Concentration_camps_.281900.E2.80.931902.29

[emmie]

was the bombing of London a war crime, or any of the docks, or Coventry, what pees me off is how some think that it was just the Nazi's who committed these crimes, they had many ordinary people behind them, there may well have been many who wanted no part, however take at look at footage of any rally, demonstration, millions giving the Nazi salute, following the leader of the nation. Jews killed in their millions, German, Polish, French Jews, given up often by those afraid to shield them, or out of spite, hatred, payback, rounded up and taken away,
come on be realistic, millions followed Hitler, he promised then a new dawn, a strong country, ready to crush the foe, that meant anyone who got in the way, including Great Britain, well we survived, but at what cost.

[jno]

I repeat: both sides committed war crimes. Only one side was prosecuted. Defend that as you will.

[emmie]

gosh wondered when someone would trot out the Boer war, my family were not involved in that, but they were in WW2, we lost family, as did millions,
if some think we should start apologising for every thing we ever did in wartime, let the Germans, Japanese start first, then we can have our turn. It's nonsense.

[emmie]

then damn well don't start the thing in the first place, you actually think that we committed the type of atrocities committed by the Nazis, and Japanese High command, oh for heaven sake.

[dunnitall]

In my simple opinion, if only, only the leaders fought ( those who wish to go to war) we wouldn't have any of this tosh...the victor would be the winner, saving thousands of lives, but what leader would be man enough to fight! War crimes wouldn't exist.

[emmie]

Churchill ordered the destruction of the French Fleet, as France had surrendered to Germany, the subsequent loss of life was over a thousand French sailors, he feared that the fleet would fall into the hands of the Germans, perhaps rightly so, i don't know if that constitutes a war crime, i doubt that the high command in France were too happy about it, but Churchill presumably thought that this would be a strategic move, i really don't know, but one of many actions, decisions that were taken to try and keep Britain from being invaded, to fight the enemy, and that is what they were at the time.

over 55 thousand men were lost from Bomber Command, and the figures of dead go on and on, shot down by enemy aircraft, The Luftwaffe had a good go at destroying the capital, the docks and other parts of Britain, should we consider what they did as war crimes, the leading Nazi's were the ones who went on trial, suggest many escaped to Argentina, and other countries willing to shelter them, or they simply stayed in Germany
who from Britain would you have prosecuted, the top brass, Churchill, war cabinet?

[emmie]

dunitall, then you would have had to start with Hitler, don't think he was likely to listen to that sort of debate, he was too busy crushing the good folk of Poland, then whoever else he rather fancied having a go at.

[dunnitall]

That's the point I make emmie, ."ordered" ! If the LEADERS fought physically then there would bet no call for war crimes it would be done and over with, too simplistic though for the human race!

[emmie]

had some of Hitlers own officers managed to get rid of him as they tried to do, not once either, then much would have been averted, however history tells us different, he survived the various plots, and summarily had those who plotted against him killed. Not a nice man, racist, violent, megalomaniac, undoubtedly with a screw loose, paranoid and one to lose his temper... to the cost of everyone involved. Had he been got rid of then some of my family might have survived, as well as those sent to the gas ovens, concentration camps, and on the front lines of battle.

[Quizmonster]

Air Marshal Sir Arthur (Bomber) Harris said and rightly so, "The Nazis entered this war under the rather childish delusion that they were going to bomb everyone else, and nobody was going to bomb them. At Rotterdam, London, Warsaw, and half a hundred other places, they put their rather naive theory into operation. They sowed the wind, and now they are going to reap the whirlwind."
And reap it they did. Bombing Dresden was no more a war crime than bombing Horoshima was. Both operations and others like them contributed to a substantial shortening of the conflict and a reduction in allied lives lost.
There is ample film and other evidence of the enthusiasm multitudes of ordinary Germans had for Hitler and his ideas. To hear from them now, you'd imagine there was nobody who voted for him or attended these rallies!
To put it simply, they got what was coming to them. I speak as someone who was alive at the time and whose neighbours less than 100 yards away died in a German bombing raid.

[emmie]

QM, agree on every point. Its delusional to think that the ordinary German was against the war, so much evidence to the contrary, most people in Britain had had a bellyful of war from WW1 and certainly didn't want to be embroiled in another one, however when push came to shove they got on with it. The figures for global war dead are anywhere between 60 to 90 million, that is a catastrophe by any stretch of the imagination.

[emmie]

did our service personnel get killed in the Falklands, did our ships get hit, or were sunk? there are one or two on here i believe who were there then, perhaps they can tell us...

[douglas9401]

Surely all water under the bridge nowadays.

[jomifl]

Jno re. the Belgrano, Britain was a war with Argentina and any of an enemies assets are fair game in wartime, no matter which way they are pointing. How long do you think it takes to turn a warship through 180 degrees? less than a day?

[jomifl]

jno, the 'concentration camps' that Britain invented were not comparable to those of nazi Germany, they didn't have gas chambers attached or facilites for testing poison gas on the inmates.