Just to wind some of you up.

[MikeMikeMike]

Terry Pratchett is the Status Quo of the Literary World, in that he has written the same book over and over and over again (possibly with the addition of one 'punne or play on words' each time), and people keep buying it while he sits on his big pile of money and laughs. Discuss. Not too Heatedly.

[LeMarchand]

I agree, actually! The only Pratchett I've read was "The Colour of Magic", and I hated it. I tried to read "Good Omens" (because I normally love Neil Gaiman's stuff), but found it tainted by TP's touch. I used to read a fair bit of fantasy, so it's not because I don't like the genre, but I do normally find "humorous" writing to be exactly the opposite. A lot of people like him, but I can't see why.

[MikeMikeMike]

Ah... a man of taste! Have you read Coraline? Very good indeed. 'The mice say don't go through the door, Coraline'. Creepy.

[MikeMikeMike]

or woman. sorry.

[sft42]

I don't see how your "one story" theory holds together....admittedly all the stories take place on discworld but most novels take place on the earth but that doesn't make them all the one story.....The first few books were about Rincewind the Magician....later books centered around the witches and others the Watch and little of the characters overlapped.....one or two were outwith these characters altogether, in fact Death is the only character omnipresent in all the books...The pun is usually in the titel of the book again admittedly but they work on more levels than just a title......Some people don't like Stephen King for the same reasons as they think he's just bashing them out but the same accusation was levelled at Dickens in his day that he was nothing more than a hack....I think in the fullness of time the public will ensure that these authors works will continue to be read for a long time.....And at least Pratchett had the decency to come up with his own ideas, like them or not, unlike that rampant plagarist Rowling.

[headlesspets]

hmm. Pratchett is often heard to gripe that he is not taken seriously by the literati - and then does nothing in his writing to address it. a small aside - Rowling maybe a plagarist but kids are reading - a good thing shurely?

[andy hughes]

It's easy to dismiss any art form by implying that it is simplistic and repetitive, and you can apply that argument to anything. The subtleties of the art form that appeal to its supporters are overlooked or missed by those who don't approve, and they dismiss it, using the arguments outlined. You can say that Accrington Stanley and Manchester United are the same, they both play football, although the lack of evidednce for that argument is immediately obvious. I've never read any Pratchett, but he has a huge legion of fans who devour his every outpouring, as indeed do Status Quo. To dsimiss domething as lightweight, when the truth is that it doesn't appeal to absolutely everyone is lazy, and ultimately futile.

[MikeMikeMike]

I don't deny for a second pratchett's (or status quo's) obvious success... they've hit on something that works and good luck to them. But I cite a few examples and you can extrapolate from there. Colour of Magic: slightly unusual, geeky and inept wizard battles unwillingly against opposing forces, succeeding through luck as much as anything else. Feet of Clay - an unwilling and inept captain, kept in his post by powers beyond his control, battles against opposing forces, succeeding through luck as much as anything else. Carpe Jugulum - an inept apprentice monk unwillingly battles against opposing forces beyond his control [with the geeky unusualness transferred onto a non-bloodthirsty vampire] The truth - slightly unusual geeky guy called William finds himsef as the 'accidental editor' (blurb) of a newspaper, suddenly everyone is out to get him and he must unwillingly etc. etc. etc. I could go on but I'd have to think quite hard because they all kind of blur into one big unwilling/geeky[characters... not readers!]/coincidence/pun mess. But again I say hurrah for Pratchett's hitting on his formulaic goldmine.

[MikeMikeMike]

Also, while I'm here, despite being funny for the first couple of books [after which, since the situations are essentially the same, so are the jokes] yes, I do think his work is lightweight. And I agree that it is easy to dismiss things as without substance. But it is equally easy to say that it works on 'many levels' and then not say what any of them are. I would be interested to learn. Possibly a certain moral incisiveness. Believe me, I would really like to enjoy them as much as other people seem to, but I think I'm gonna take some convincing.

[MikeMikeMike]

I wish all these thoughts would come out in one, rather more concise, reply. Ah well. Andy hughes, I don't think we disagree as much as you think we do. Acrington Stanley are bad at football, Manchester United are good. As you say, that is very obvious. i'm saying Pratchett is bad [there, I said it] and other authors (cf. Dickens), are good.

[woofgang]

mikemikemike, reading is not a contest, its like eating. Sometimes I want curry, sometimes i want roast beef, often i want icecream, always i want chocolate, but whatever i want, i want the best of its kind. TP is excellent at what he does, if you don't like it then thats fine. The people, like me who buy his books do so because we like them, not because he has us hypnotized. Does he explore common themes? yes, but then so do Dickens, Dostoyefsky ( may not be spelt correctly )et al. Does this make him a bad writer? no. If you don't get his humour, so what, I find Shakespeare humungeously unfunny, also much modern day humour...Jane Austen, however makes me laugh out loud, also TP...guess I'm just not in the mood for heated discussion...

[Fitzer]

I am intrigued that LeMarchand can agree with the original premise when he/she admits to only having read one of the books. How can one then say that all of the books are essentially the same?

[LeMarchand]

Fitzer: It was more of a general agreement of TP's over-ratedness, though having spent a number of years in "The Trade" (bookselling), I have a pretty good idea of what his books are like. I can never understand how he gets decent reviews from some of the "quality" press when they are normally dismissive of any Fantasy (if it is reviewed at all). Although I gather the later volumes were poor, I much preferred Piers Anthony's "Xanth" series to Pratchett's scribblings, but only the first few saw the light of day in this country.
sft42: Whilst I agree that JK has stolen most of her ideas from others, I have to shame-facedly admit that I've read and enjoyed all the HP books so far. They are a bit too formulaic, but there is something quite comforting in their straightforward style.
MikeMikeMike: I have read "Coraline" (managed to get a proof before the aforementioned career in bookselling came it's end) - and thoroughly enjoyed it. I just wish Gaiman would hurry up and write something else and/or get his movie "MirrorMask" ( http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0366780/ ) released. Mme LeMarchand will confirm that I am indeed a man, btw!

[MikeMikeMike]

I didn't realise he was making another film. As long as it's an improvement on the bbc's attempt at neverwhere, which was embarrassing for everyone concerned. As for the gushing reviews on the back of his books, most of them aren't book specific... I think they save them up from earlier. Which I can't back up at all.

[Hamish]

Watch any soaps?

[MikeMikeMike]

Not really, Hamish. I work when they're on. But you're right The same old nonsense on a loop

[MrIxolite]

MikeMikeMike: I respect the fact that you don't enjoy the books, but with the exception of Rincewind, the other characters you mentioned are not inept. I think you may have missed the point of the stories. The captian (I assume you mean Vimes) is actually a very good copper , the point that he doesn't get results is more down the the flaws and ludicrousness of the society around him and I believe TP tries to convey this. In Carpe Jugulum, I don't recall a monk, maybe you mean Thief of Time? Again the monk Lu-tse isn't inept, he is in fact very skilled at what he does. The main character in Carpe Jugulum is a trainee witch , Agnes Nitt. If you would take a recommendation , give TP one last try with Small Gods. My personal fave. This has many insightful observations and "crticisms" of Organised religion, and is different to the others. Where I can see where your coming from is where TP has written so many books set in the same world with well established characters, his later books work for fans becasue they know the characters well enough to find some of the situations funny because of the history. Any newbie picking up a later pratchett would struggle. All in all I think he tells a good story and knows how to convey the humour that exists in the ridiculousness of our own world. As he says himself Discworld is a world, and mirror of worlds.

[Hamish]

What do you read/watch?

[MikeMikeMike]

There's not much that I read or watch religiously. Right now I'm reading 'Down and out in London and Paris' by George Orwell, '1001 limericks' and a updated Origin of Species called 'Something Like a Whale'.I just finished 'The Unconsoled' by Kazuo Ishiguro. I read 'The Little Prince' all the time, firstly because it is brilliant and secondly because my nephew thinks it's great as well so I have to read it to him because my brother is sick of it.Oh, and The Sandman stuff is really good. As is A Portrait of the Artist as a Young Man. I've just bought the War of the Worlds and Picture of Dorian Gray. T.V. - I watch... I don't know. Whatever comes on when I'm bored. Can't stand makeover programs or anything where people overestimate the value of antiques. So that doesn't give me much room to manouevre, t.v.-wise. I await your analysis!

[MikeMikeMike]

Oh, apart from 'Beat the Nation'. Which is just brilliant. I can't watch it all the way through becuase I'd die of boredom, but you can switch it over at any time and they're always saying EXACTLY what they say every program, absolutely word for word, which seems to appeal to my sense of humour a great deal. You have my permission to use that in your attack.

[MrIxolite]

(talk to yourself Ix)