FAO Ratter

[zzxxee]

I think it was you who posted some time ago about giving your dogs a totally raw diet ?
Can you tell me what kind of things you give your dogs on a daily basis
Also portion size for a patterdale terrier jack russell x dog (about the size of a cocker spaniel)
many thanks x

[Carakeel]

Not to mention the fact that training for vets is paid for by the big commercial dog food companies! Hmmm, yet another reason why most vets prefer you to feed commercial dog food. It is all a money making thing and has nothing to do with the welfare of pets. Mind you, there is also the slight matter of commercial dog food being more "convenient" and of course it is easier to just open a tin or a bag and put it in the dog's bowl. It is easier than to actually think about what you are feeding and make up food that is healthy and suitable yourself, as you would for the rest of your family. But aren't our dogs a part of our family?

[mrs.chappie]

Agreed. Very sad but true .... some vets put cash before an animal's well-being.

When I took in unwanted birds, I took a poorly wee budgie to an avian vet. He took one look at the budgie and said: "Do you know it will cost you £11 before I even examine that?"

I could tell you many stories about my experiences with vets. Fortunately, not all bad though. Our local (non-avian) vet used to give me his time for free - only charged for medicines. He knew I funded the rescues from my own pocket. He was a very kind man.

[zzxxee]

Nice to know there are still some vets who have kind hearts Mrs Chappie x

[mrs.chappie]

Yes, I was very lucky to find him, zz.

[zzxxee]

;0) x

[Carakeel]

Nice to know too that there are lovely unselfish humans who have such kind hearts like Mrs Chappie too! :o)

[divegirl]

Opps....put up the wrong link this morning in my haste.....but see that the man and his lovely lady have pointed you in the right direction!

LIsa x

[jules77]

The reason vets dont advocate a raw diet, or should I say bones, is because they are the ones that have to operate to remove them from a dogs throat and abdomen. Make sure you read up on the pros AND the cons. IMO you can feed a natural diet, without the need to add bones. Before anyone jumps down my throat, I have personal experience through a friend who's dog nearly died after eating a raw bone.

http://www.secondchanceranch.org/rawindex.htm

[zzxxee]

i suppose you could grind them up a bit in a blender first ?

[mrs.chappie]

Thanks very much, Carakeel, that's kind of you to say so. :o)

Jules, the websites show an example of one "expert" having a conflicting opinion to another "expert". Tbh I found this happened quite a lot when I used to be involved in animal rescue (I don't necessarily mean the bone issue - I only ever spoke to one vet regarding bones).

Sorry to read about your friend's dog. It would be interesting to know the statistics of how many dogs have died or nearly died from eating bones. Is the number very small? Do the benefits outweigh the risks? It's a difficult one.

Going slightly off topic here - I always remove the long, thin 'needle-like' bone from a chicken thigh before giving a thigh bone to my parrots, to remove any possibility that it'll pierce the parrots tongue/mouth. That particular long, thin bone does look dangerous for a parrot.

[RATTER15]

Jules, I have researched this subject lke you wouldnt believe, im sure that a load of horror stories can be found but the truth is RAW feeding has far more benifits than feeding commercially processed goo, pressed into pellets and sprayed with an appetizer to make it edible to dogs.

Remember one thing, dogs ar Carnivours!!

[mrs.chappie]

Just look at the size of Ratter's dog .... you'd never believe he's a chihuahua. :o)

[anneasquith]

oh , ive missed carakeel posting tonight, a quick hello,,,,,,,,,excuse me zzxxee.

[jules77]

We will agree to differ I think. I have no problem with a natural diet, but not bones that be crunched up and swallowed. Mine have a knuckle bone now and again, but just for an hour or so.. I have done loads of research on it over the years, and there is a lot out there, that site was just one example. Not all dogs can tolerate a raw diet.

[RATTER15]

Jules, bones are a vital part of a raw diet, more dogs have died through being fed commercial dog food than ever have died through eating a raw diet and bones.

The problem with research:

The dog food manufacturers have got so much to lose from people going over to raw feeding, (raw feeding is no fad, its taking over in huge numbers) Dog food manufacturers will publish all the biased research they can get their hands on to discredit raw feeding, its in their best interests to save their multi billion £ empires!!

Raw feeding research is not sponsored by our local butcher, he isn’t going to sponsor Raw feeding of any animal, the research is not backed by multi million £ companies. Raw feeding research is done by scientist and by people with a love and passion for their animals.

We were amazed ourselves just how many people are actually feeding Raw, we are now meeting these people at dog shows, in the street and even people we have known for years and have been raw feeding for years, but of course, if its not a particular interest of yours the subject of dog food rarely comes up in conversation.

Even some of the big breeders are switching to raw food, bones and all. All I ever hear from them is great results and not a single horror story.

This is what Purina has to say about raw feeding
http://www.purinaone....34cfe76c8&species=dog

Everything they say is generally true. Meat is low in calcium, that is why we feed bones, high in calcium, Liver can be harmful over a period of time if fed in quantity, agreed, that’s why we don’t do that, we feed only the required amount. In the wild they eat grasses and vegetable matter, again this is tru

[lankeela]

I was going to stay out of this debate but you know me never one to miss a good meaningful discussion! I have six dogs, five small ones who are aged 13, 14 and 15 and two are nearly eight. They have all been reared and fed on Eukanuba complete dry food with a little meat (usually tinned) and the 15 year old (well almost sixteen) is still being shown. They have had no major health problems and I am happy with their coats and condition, and I would recommend the food to anyone. I also have a GSD (one year old on Sunday) and he too has Eukanuba with a little tinned meat, but also raw chicken (usually wings, sometimes thighs or legs if they are on offer). He has a mixture at breakfast and tea, and I introduced the raw chicken to put a bit of weight on him as he seemed a bit lean to me. I have no problem with people feeding a completely raw diet although I wouldn't want to do it myself, what I do have a problem with is people who feed raw always wanting to convince the rest of us that we are being cruel to our dogs or making them sick etc because we feed a rubbish processed food! I don't do it just because its convenient or cheap its because my dogs do very well on it, my dogs have done very well on so called 'rubbish' processed food than you very much but I still appreciate that some people prefer to feed raw. My GSD is proof that you can feed a combination and I believe in feeding what best suits your dog and you. Raw feeding done incorrectly can cause problems for instance I knew someone who only fed raw liver and kidneys and their dog was very ill. They thought they were doing the best by it, but not so. I trust my dog food manufacturer who spend £££££s researching their food to find the best combination of ingredients and whilst I would not feed some of the cheaper complete foods I believe that even they suit some dogs. How many times do you see a Lab with a lovely shiny coat and white teeth that is fed on cheap crap compl

[RATTER15]

In the wild they eat grasses and vegetable matter, again this is true. Generally speaking wolves will eat a minute amount vegetable matter contained in the stomach of their prey, they will not eat the stomach of large prey on most occasions, they also eat berries etc. True When we feed Raw we also feed fruit and vegetables. They also say that the meat may contain bacteria, of course it can. that’s why we only feed human grade meat, also remember that a dog would eat a carcase that has been lying in the sun for a week with no ill affect.

If that is the best that Purina can do to discredit raw feeding, I can only see that page as a huge boost to raw feeding!!!

[RATTER15]

I agree Lankeela, millions of dogs world wide have been reared very successfully on dried food and many have won Crufts etc but that doesn’t mean there isn’t a better alternative.

I agree about the liver, kidneys etc can make a dog ill, you need a well balanced diet, to much of any particular food is not good for animals or humans.

Before going over to a raw diet you need to do some research and feed you dog what is right, its certainly not a case of popping into your local pet store or butcher and picking up a few pound of raw meat, I don’t think I have ever suggested that it was or is that easy. Raw feeding is far from convenient and does take more time in preparation and cleaning up afterwards, we just think its far more natural and more enjoyable for our dogs and the health benefits are so evident in our dogs.

Its not for everybody but its the best if you can do it :-)

[jules77]

What makes Raw a better alternative? I dont even eat a totally unprocessed diet myself, I hate greens, so I dont include them in our meals, even though my husband loves them. But I spend a fair amount of time cooking up a selection of vegetables for the dogs, which I add to a processed diet.

[RATTER15]

"What makes Raw a better alternative?" Raw is so big now and the research has proven it so many times, the reasearch is all over the net, not difficult to find. I know many commercial feeders will never accept this and will alway dig out some argument against it, im sure there would be proof that the earth is flat if you look hard enough but there are those of us that thankfully know differently. xxx :-)