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Mosque
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Why dont women go to the mosque to pray - or do they .
I have not noticed women coming out of mosques
I have not noticed women coming out of mosques
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Lightbulb - Why do you persist in throwing in this red herring. A lot of western women are converting to Islam therefore Islam treats women well.
This is logically flawed and I've noticed this from others who are of a religious persuasion on here.
If every woman in the country converted to Islam it would still not alter the fact that Islam is a misogynistic religion.
This is logically flawed and I've noticed this from others who are of a religious persuasion on here.
If every woman in the country converted to Islam it would still not alter the fact that Islam is a misogynistic religion.
////I don't see anything wrong with what keyplus said there. Surely he's just reflecting the facts of the domestic arrangements in the majority of muslim households. i.e women are expected to stay at home and do the chores, so they're not expected to turn up at mosque 5 times a day.//
I think if someone did not like my comments then just read your own papers and reports where it is clear that families where man earns and women looks after children are the most satisfied, children are better looked after and environment is more healthier. In Islam a women does not have to work unless she has no choice. Her father, brothers, husband and sons look after her and there is nothing wrong in that. However if someone beleives that he would pay for his own Mcdonald and his wife should buy her own or otherwise go without then one does not have to be a rocket scientist to understand which family would be more happy and satisfied. Good luck to people who do not agree with it.
I think if someone did not like my comments then just read your own papers and reports where it is clear that families where man earns and women looks after children are the most satisfied, children are better looked after and environment is more healthier. In Islam a women does not have to work unless she has no choice. Her father, brothers, husband and sons look after her and there is nothing wrong in that. However if someone beleives that he would pay for his own Mcdonald and his wife should buy her own or otherwise go without then one does not have to be a rocket scientist to understand which family would be more happy and satisfied. Good luck to people who do not agree with it.
////If every woman in the country converted to Islam it would still not alter the fact that Islam is a misogynistic religion.////
Now that is a very fine example of whatever happens I will not believe.
And what women want? How do you wnhat women want? Do you decide for every single women or is it that women should want what you think they should? In that case are you giving women choice? Thick brains you are nothing else.
Now that is a very fine example of whatever happens I will not believe.
And what women want? How do you wnhat women want? Do you decide for every single women or is it that women should want what you think they should? In that case are you giving women choice? Thick brains you are nothing else.
Did you know that there are many, many ladies-only golf clubs? And of course such clubs ad the WI, and local women only groups that men are forbidden to use (gyms, for example).
Then there is the fact that women get the same money at Wimbledon (and no doubt the other majors) for playing pit-pat over three sets, as the men get for playing biff-bash over five! Totally unfair and provoked by the women threatening to throw their toys out the pram and go on strike!
And I thought women wanted equality?
Then there is the fact that women get the same money at Wimbledon (and no doubt the other majors) for playing pit-pat over three sets, as the men get for playing biff-bash over five! Totally unfair and provoked by the women threatening to throw their toys out the pram and go on strike!
And I thought women wanted equality?
Whenever the subject of women's rights in Islam comes up, Keyplus and other Islamic apologists always assert that all muslim women are perfectly happy with the status-quo (“..ask my wife...”, etc). When challenged as to whether all women are happy with it, the standard reply and/or counter argument is, “Of course they are. If they weren't, they'd leave Islam! Anyway, how do you know they're not happy with it?” or a variant on this line of so-called reasoning.
It is of course - as one would expect from an intolerant and bigoted religion - a spurious argument since it assumes two things. First, that leaving Islam is not a problem for anyone and second, that as one cannot question every single Islamic woman to find out how she feels about the status-quo and since muslim women are not complaining en-masse about their role in the Islamic religion / culture then they must be completely happy with it.
As anyone who isn't a bigoted, misogynistic fool can see, this line of reasoning is risible for glaringly obvious reasons. First, leaving Islam is not easy. In fact, it can be quite hazardous to one's health since the prescribed punishment for leaving Islam (apostasy) is death or a lifetime in prison. From wikipedia, “... The majority of Muslim scholars hold to the traditional view that apostasy is punishable by death or imprisonment...”.
https:/
Second, to argue that, since muslim women are not taking to the streets therefore they must be wholeheartedly in support of their second-class status in Islam, is quite moronic. It's rather like the argument that was used in defence of black slavery in the 1800s: "They're perfectly happy. They're well looked after and fed and watered. They don't want the responsibility of taking care of themselves independently. They're not really capable of thinking for themselves in the way that we do. They're predisposed to being subservient. It's in their nature. We're really doing them a favour..." etc.
One of the cornerstones of the Islamic religion is that women are NOT equal to men. They are mere chattels. As such, asking a muslim woman how she feels about her rights and her role in Islam within the earshot of a male muslim is – to put it mildly – asking for trouble. It's coercion writ large.
Unfortunately, the likes of Keyplus cannot look at their own religious texts with anything approaching objectivity and consequently have little or no concept of religious coercion.
It is of course - as one would expect from an intolerant and bigoted religion - a spurious argument since it assumes two things. First, that leaving Islam is not a problem for anyone and second, that as one cannot question every single Islamic woman to find out how she feels about the status-quo and since muslim women are not complaining en-masse about their role in the Islamic religion / culture then they must be completely happy with it.
As anyone who isn't a bigoted, misogynistic fool can see, this line of reasoning is risible for glaringly obvious reasons. First, leaving Islam is not easy. In fact, it can be quite hazardous to one's health since the prescribed punishment for leaving Islam (apostasy) is death or a lifetime in prison. From wikipedia, “... The majority of Muslim scholars hold to the traditional view that apostasy is punishable by death or imprisonment...”.
https:/
Second, to argue that, since muslim women are not taking to the streets therefore they must be wholeheartedly in support of their second-class status in Islam, is quite moronic. It's rather like the argument that was used in defence of black slavery in the 1800s: "They're perfectly happy. They're well looked after and fed and watered. They don't want the responsibility of taking care of themselves independently. They're not really capable of thinking for themselves in the way that we do. They're predisposed to being subservient. It's in their nature. We're really doing them a favour..." etc.
One of the cornerstones of the Islamic religion is that women are NOT equal to men. They are mere chattels. As such, asking a muslim woman how she feels about her rights and her role in Islam within the earshot of a male muslim is – to put it mildly – asking for trouble. It's coercion writ large.
Unfortunately, the likes of Keyplus cannot look at their own religious texts with anything approaching objectivity and consequently have little or no concept of religious coercion.
//If every woman in the country converted to Islam it would still not alter the fact that Islam is a misogynistic religion. //
firstly you believe islam is a mysogynistic religion, i do not.
secondly, yes, if islam was mysogynistic than women converting would not change that, yet ask why they are converting. I know, the obvious answer is marriage, but even than, if they know ther husband will be "sexist" why marry him? Why marry someone who is "sexist"? Yes, some, maybe a lot may be to do with marriage, but even than, they are still converting and if islam was that bad, why would a woman marry a muslim if she knew he would be sexist and would treat her as an inferior?
firstly you believe islam is a mysogynistic religion, i do not.
secondly, yes, if islam was mysogynistic than women converting would not change that, yet ask why they are converting. I know, the obvious answer is marriage, but even than, if they know ther husband will be "sexist" why marry him? Why marry someone who is "sexist"? Yes, some, maybe a lot may be to do with marriage, but even than, they are still converting and if islam was that bad, why would a woman marry a muslim if she knew he would be sexist and would treat her as an inferior?
//in fact one burqa-clad lady offered me the opportunity to try a burqa to 'feel my pain'/
what, randomly? And besides, yes, the quran states to women to cover themselves up, but Burkhas are not mentioned. In fact, go to places like pakistan etc barely anyone wears them. It is a middle eastern cultural thing.
what, randomly? And besides, yes, the quran states to women to cover themselves up, but Burkhas are not mentioned. In fact, go to places like pakistan etc barely anyone wears them. It is a middle eastern cultural thing.
Boxy, //It doesn't actually say "cover themselves up",//
I’m afraid it does. Read it – or read on.
Lightbulb, //How on earth is he deciding for EVERY women???//
Well he seems to be making a bit of a bid for it. He told me to try wearing a burqa – and I’m an English Atheist!
//what, randomly?//
No, not randomly.
//And besides, yes, the quran states to women to cover themselves up, but Burkhas are not mentioned.//
As far as I’m aware, the word ‘burqa’ is not mentioned. Nevertheless, this is the sort of thing fundamentalist Islam uses to justify its imposition of the burqa.
//O Prophet, enjoin your wives and your daughters and the believing women, to draw a part of their outer coverings around them.….//
… or perhaps …..
//O Prophet! Tell your wives and your daughters and the women of the believers to draw their cloaks (veils) all over their bodies (i.e.screen themselves completely except the eyes or one eye to see the way).….. //
Same verse, different translation. So much for the Koran being immutable. ;o)
If you think it’s a Middle Eastern cultural thing, ask yourself why the Taliban insist that women wear it, why many British women converts adopt it, why it has become a political symbol for fundamentalist Islam - or why Keyplus, a Pakistani, told me, a free Englishwoman, to wear one.
This is what Amnesty International says:
//”…a general ban on wearing full-face veils in public could result in some women being confined to their homes and unable to participate in public life."//
http://
Who do you think would want to confine women to their homes?
Flick the switch, Lightbulb.
I’m afraid it does. Read it – or read on.
Lightbulb, //How on earth is he deciding for EVERY women???//
Well he seems to be making a bit of a bid for it. He told me to try wearing a burqa – and I’m an English Atheist!
//what, randomly?//
No, not randomly.
//And besides, yes, the quran states to women to cover themselves up, but Burkhas are not mentioned.//
As far as I’m aware, the word ‘burqa’ is not mentioned. Nevertheless, this is the sort of thing fundamentalist Islam uses to justify its imposition of the burqa.
//O Prophet, enjoin your wives and your daughters and the believing women, to draw a part of their outer coverings around them.….//
… or perhaps …..
//O Prophet! Tell your wives and your daughters and the women of the believers to draw their cloaks (veils) all over their bodies (i.e.screen themselves completely except the eyes or one eye to see the way).….. //
Same verse, different translation. So much for the Koran being immutable. ;o)
If you think it’s a Middle Eastern cultural thing, ask yourself why the Taliban insist that women wear it, why many British women converts adopt it, why it has become a political symbol for fundamentalist Islam - or why Keyplus, a Pakistani, told me, a free Englishwoman, to wear one.
This is what Amnesty International says:
//”…a general ban on wearing full-face veils in public could result in some women being confined to their homes and unable to participate in public life."//
http://
Who do you think would want to confine women to their homes?
Flick the switch, Lightbulb.
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