ChatterBank0 min ago
If you are White and Middle Class, just forget it.
84 Answers
http://tinyurl.com/5sgt4aw
One more example of discrimination against whites.
Is it any wonder schemes such as these only fan the flames of racial division?
/// A Cabinet Office spokesman said: ‘We think the Civil Service should represent the people we serve and we make no apology for that. Selection for permanent positions is available to all and is always based on fair and open competition.’ ///
Yes, and they expect us to believe that also?
One more example of discrimination against whites.
Is it any wonder schemes such as these only fan the flames of racial division?
/// A Cabinet Office spokesman said: ‘We think the Civil Service should represent the people we serve and we make no apology for that. Selection for permanent positions is available to all and is always based on fair and open competition.’ ///
Yes, and they expect us to believe that also?
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I cannot believe your reasoning sometimes, sp. Your crusade knows no bounds.
Just recently we had a vigorous debate about the “Midsomer Murders” issue. Now we have this matter, described by the article which you so eloquently describe as “usual cobblers” and “errant nonsense”. I have re-read the article as you suggest and I can see no evidence other than the policy is discriminatory as far as these particular schemes are concerned. They should be open to all but some applicants are barred because of their colour and/or background. Your contention is that as there are many other schemes open to white applicants it does not matter. My similar contention that there were many other productions apart from Midsomer Murders which would accommodate non-white actors was howled down. I contended that nobody from an ethnic minority was harmed by Mr True-May’s casting policy because, as he had no non-white parts to cast, no non-whites had suffered discrimination. Here there is no particular racial requirement (other than Harriet Harman’s ludicrous “Equality Act”) but apparently that does not matter and discrimination is perfectly acceptable. You can verse it any way you want (and I’m sure you will) but the policy is discriminatory.
I can just about accept that it may be desirable (but not essential) for the police service to reflect the communities they serve. But there is no earthly reason why the civil service (or indeed the London Fire Brigade, who operate similar discriminatory policies) must do likewise
Just ask yourself how you’d react if the schemes were closed to, say, black people. But no doubt that would be “different” and in saying so you’d suggest the end justifies the means. I believe it does not.
Just recently we had a vigorous debate about the “Midsomer Murders” issue. Now we have this matter, described by the article which you so eloquently describe as “usual cobblers” and “errant nonsense”. I have re-read the article as you suggest and I can see no evidence other than the policy is discriminatory as far as these particular schemes are concerned. They should be open to all but some applicants are barred because of their colour and/or background. Your contention is that as there are many other schemes open to white applicants it does not matter. My similar contention that there were many other productions apart from Midsomer Murders which would accommodate non-white actors was howled down. I contended that nobody from an ethnic minority was harmed by Mr True-May’s casting policy because, as he had no non-white parts to cast, no non-whites had suffered discrimination. Here there is no particular racial requirement (other than Harriet Harman’s ludicrous “Equality Act”) but apparently that does not matter and discrimination is perfectly acceptable. You can verse it any way you want (and I’m sure you will) but the policy is discriminatory.
I can just about accept that it may be desirable (but not essential) for the police service to reflect the communities they serve. But there is no earthly reason why the civil service (or indeed the London Fire Brigade, who operate similar discriminatory policies) must do likewise
Just ask yourself how you’d react if the schemes were closed to, say, black people. But no doubt that would be “different” and in saying so you’d suggest the end justifies the means. I believe it does not.
"Just ask yourself how you’d react if the schemes were closed to, say, black people."
If we had a police force that was largely composed of black people and the police force itself decided to run a scheme to encourage whites then I wouldn't object in the least.
"They should be open to all but some applicants are barred because of their colour and/or background."
That completely defies logic - how can you take a policy that is specifically designed to alter the socio-ethnic balance in an organisation and open it to all? It would no longer serve any purpose.
I see that you wear a woolly wig NJ, but that's no excuse for woolly reasoning.
Incidentally, I was one of those who defended the Midsomer Murders policy, and now I'm defending a similar policy. The policies are similar in that neither is designed to discriminate AGAINST anyone. The first was designed to achieve a particular artistic (in the broadest sense of the word) result, and the second is designed to achieve ethnic diversity in a body whose job is to serve an ethnically diverse society.
If we had a police force that was largely composed of black people and the police force itself decided to run a scheme to encourage whites then I wouldn't object in the least.
"They should be open to all but some applicants are barred because of their colour and/or background."
That completely defies logic - how can you take a policy that is specifically designed to alter the socio-ethnic balance in an organisation and open it to all? It would no longer serve any purpose.
I see that you wear a woolly wig NJ, but that's no excuse for woolly reasoning.
Incidentally, I was one of those who defended the Midsomer Murders policy, and now I'm defending a similar policy. The policies are similar in that neither is designed to discriminate AGAINST anyone. The first was designed to achieve a particular artistic (in the broadest sense of the word) result, and the second is designed to achieve ethnic diversity in a body whose job is to serve an ethnically diverse society.
There is no need for a policy that is specifically designed to alter the socio-ethnic balance of the police, rojash. You don't have to be like somebody to serve or represent them. And there is certainly no place for one which discriminates against a large section of the population.
To be fair, John, it is almost certainly not the police themselves who are to blame. Today’s Chief Constables are carefully selected to ensure they are “right on” message. Being a good police officer with a proven record of success in the prevention and detection of crime is not essential.
As a result, because of political pressure, most police forces are now more concerned with not appearing too “nasty”. They devote a considerable amount of their scarce (soon to be scarcer) resources to an obsession with matters pertaining to race, gender and sexuality almost to the point of mental illness. Much of this stems from some of the preposterous recommendations of the MacPherson report into the death of Stephen Lawrence. Nobody gets into the police unless they subscribe fully to these principles and of those who joined pre-MacPherson none rises above the rank of Constable (if they survive at all) unless they do likewise. Much of the bureaucracy which hampers the police stems from those principles and it is stifling the ability of the police to effectively do the job that people expect of them.
The recruitment policy which is the subject of this question is a case in point. It is less concerned with identifying the best people for the job and more concerned with fulfilling unnecessary quotas.
To be fair, John, it is almost certainly not the police themselves who are to blame. Today’s Chief Constables are carefully selected to ensure they are “right on” message. Being a good police officer with a proven record of success in the prevention and detection of crime is not essential.
As a result, because of political pressure, most police forces are now more concerned with not appearing too “nasty”. They devote a considerable amount of their scarce (soon to be scarcer) resources to an obsession with matters pertaining to race, gender and sexuality almost to the point of mental illness. Much of this stems from some of the preposterous recommendations of the MacPherson report into the death of Stephen Lawrence. Nobody gets into the police unless they subscribe fully to these principles and of those who joined pre-MacPherson none rises above the rank of Constable (if they survive at all) unless they do likewise. Much of the bureaucracy which hampers the police stems from those principles and it is stifling the ability of the police to effectively do the job that people expect of them.
The recruitment policy which is the subject of this question is a case in point. It is less concerned with identifying the best people for the job and more concerned with fulfilling unnecessary quotas.
"You don't have to be like somebody to serve or represent them. "
That's theoretically true, NJ, but it would certainly make the job of the police easier if a large number of people didn't see them (rightly or wrongly) as representing and defending the interests of only certain section of the population. The joke about being arrested for walking around whilst being black didn't come from nowhere.
That's theoretically true, NJ, but it would certainly make the job of the police easier if a large number of people didn't see them (rightly or wrongly) as representing and defending the interests of only certain section of the population. The joke about being arrested for walking around whilst being black didn't come from nowhere.
But they'd be arrested for being black by a black officer as well as a white officer, rojash. The issue is that the police need the best people for the job.They need people who are non-discriminatory in their duties and who are selected by a non-discriminatory process.
It's a great pity that many people (both black and white) do not trust the police. But this will not be cured by making the police "representative" of the communities they serve. In fact, in my experience many black people distrust black officers even more than they distrust white officers. The efforts that some police forces go to in trying to chase this impossible (and unnecessary) dream are seriously detracting from their ability to do their job properly.
I'm going to bed!
It's a great pity that many people (both black and white) do not trust the police. But this will not be cured by making the police "representative" of the communities they serve. In fact, in my experience many black people distrust black officers even more than they distrust white officers. The efforts that some police forces go to in trying to chase this impossible (and unnecessary) dream are seriously detracting from their ability to do their job properly.
I'm going to bed!
Come one White blokes...tell us why you are so hard done by.
Ridiculous,
It's literally like...Harry Potter-level of cobblers (by that, I mean that it's rubbish - like the Harry Pooter series of films).
I will say this very slowly and clearly:
If....you...are...white...and...heterosexual.
..and...middle...class...then...you...have...
the...world...at....your...feet...and....you.
..should...shut...the...hell....up...because.
..you...have....nothing...to...complain...abo
ut.
Seriously. In the UK at the moment, being a straight White, able-bodied male is the equivalent of being a glamour 'model' with a DD bra size and few inhibitions. You are literally at the top of the game, and you should be clicking your heels with joy.
White straight males are the Katie Prices of the socio-economic world.
Capiche?
Ridiculous,
It's literally like...Harry Potter-level of cobblers (by that, I mean that it's rubbish - like the Harry Pooter series of films).
I will say this very slowly and clearly:
If....you...are...white...and...heterosexual.
..and...middle...class...then...you...have...
the...world...at....your...feet...and....you.
..should...shut...the...hell....up...because.
..you...have....nothing...to...complain...abo
ut.
Seriously. In the UK at the moment, being a straight White, able-bodied male is the equivalent of being a glamour 'model' with a DD bra size and few inhibitions. You are literally at the top of the game, and you should be clicking your heels with joy.
White straight males are the Katie Prices of the socio-economic world.
Capiche?
Joe Luke
If you are White and in the majority, then you're much more likely to be the person who discriminates.
It's the majority (White straight males) who tend to kill gay men...you just have to read the papers.
Apparently the choice of murder is stamping on the head.
Why do straight blokes do that?
And why is it that gay men don't gang up on straight me to murder them?
Odd isn't is?
If you are White and in the majority, then you're much more likely to be the person who discriminates.
It's the majority (White straight males) who tend to kill gay men...you just have to read the papers.
Apparently the choice of murder is stamping on the head.
Why do straight blokes do that?
And why is it that gay men don't gang up on straight me to murder them?
Odd isn't is?
I wrote:
"If you are White and in the majority, then you're much more likely to be the person who discriminates."
I retract...thats absolute hogwash...just because you're white and in 'the majority' does NOT predispose you to be a bigot. That is not what I mean at all...so please disregard,
I work with plenty if White people, lots of whom are good friends and I would hate for then to think that I place them in the same category as ill-educated 'mouth-breathers' lime the common or garden bigots who seem to garner more than their fair share of column inches.
(We all know who I'm talking about).
"If you are White and in the majority, then you're much more likely to be the person who discriminates."
I retract...thats absolute hogwash...just because you're white and in 'the majority' does NOT predispose you to be a bigot. That is not what I mean at all...so please disregard,
I work with plenty if White people, lots of whom are good friends and I would hate for then to think that I place them in the same category as ill-educated 'mouth-breathers' lime the common or garden bigots who seem to garner more than their fair share of column inches.
(We all know who I'm talking about).
"If you are White and in the majority, then you're much more likely to be the person who discriminates."
I retract...thats absolute hogwash...just because you're white and in 'the majority' does NOT predispose you to be a bigot. That is not what I mean at all...so please disregard,"
I glad you said that - as I'm white and middle class...
I retract...thats absolute hogwash...just because you're white and in 'the majority' does NOT predispose you to be a bigot. That is not what I mean at all...so please disregard,"
I glad you said that - as I'm white and middle class...
I will not address the issue because I think New Judge has made a better job of it than I could ever hope to.
But I must address sp1814's racist ramblings.
/// And if people had an ounce of common sense (and the ability to read through the usual DM cobblers) they could see that this isn't the ONLY internship on offer. It's one of a range of opportunities. ///
What are you actually saying, "this is only one internship that the white middle classes are barred from, oh well that is alright then"?
Well yes if you happen not to be white and middle class, but if one happened to be Black, Asian, homosexual, female etc. then if any of these groups where barred from even one internship because they belonged to one of these groups, then the whole news media would erupt, yes even the Daily Mail.
So why is it not so important for a white person to be turned down for a job ,just because he is white?
But I must address sp1814's racist ramblings.
/// And if people had an ounce of common sense (and the ability to read through the usual DM cobblers) they could see that this isn't the ONLY internship on offer. It's one of a range of opportunities. ///
What are you actually saying, "this is only one internship that the white middle classes are barred from, oh well that is alright then"?
Well yes if you happen not to be white and middle class, but if one happened to be Black, Asian, homosexual, female etc. then if any of these groups where barred from even one internship because they belonged to one of these groups, then the whole news media would erupt, yes even the Daily Mail.
So why is it not so important for a white person to be turned down for a job ,just because he is white?
sp1814
/// So what the article ACTUALLY means, is that six..yes count 'em SIX people from ethnic backgrounds will be able to secure internships, but there are a number of other internships which are available to all.///
What would haver been your attitude if SIX, yes only SIX people from white middle class backgrounds will be able to secure internships, but there are a number of other internships which are available to all?
Takes on an entirely different meaning then, if you happen to belong to a minority group.
/// So what the article ACTUALLY means, is that six..yes count 'em SIX people from ethnic backgrounds will be able to secure internships, but there are a number of other internships which are available to all.///
What would haver been your attitude if SIX, yes only SIX people from white middle class backgrounds will be able to secure internships, but there are a number of other internships which are available to all?
Takes on an entirely different meaning then, if you happen to belong to a minority group.
sp1814
/// Seriously. In the UK at the moment, being a straight White, able-bodied male is the equivalent of being a glamour 'model' with a DD bra size and few inhibitions. You are literally at the top of the game, and you should be clicking your heels with joy. ///
Ah, so we have discovered the reason for that enormous chip on your should.
You are jealous, (and it shows) because you are not 'a straight White, able-bodied male'.
/// Seriously. In the UK at the moment, being a straight White, able-bodied male is the equivalent of being a glamour 'model' with a DD bra size and few inhibitions. You are literally at the top of the game, and you should be clicking your heels with joy. ///
Ah, so we have discovered the reason for that enormous chip on your should.
You are jealous, (and it shows) because you are not 'a straight White, able-bodied male'.
If people insist on whingeing about being one of the privileged majority because the odd crumb is offered to others perhaps we should reverse the situation.
We'll have an occasional internship reserved for us white middle class and all the rest will predominantly employ ethnic minorities.
Would you prefer that Old Git?
We'll have an occasional internship reserved for us white middle class and all the rest will predominantly employ ethnic minorities.
Would you prefer that Old Git?
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