The Power of Prayer And Belief

[birdie1971]

I've been very remiss and not answered a question put to me by Razzle09 way back in July.

The question can be found here...

http://www.theanswerbank.co.uk/Society-and-Culture/Religion-and-Spirituality/Question786173.html

The question (which was more of a statement) says, 'Group set up to pray for a reduction in crime rate in a city found that drop of about 5 -10% occurred. Same group projecting unconditional loving thoughts directed to all the people of God's creation without judgement of their perceived statuses as "good" or "evil" resulted in an 80% reduction.'

Comments?

[birdie1971]

To Razzle specifically.

Two questions. First, I would like a reference to the the 'study' you have quoted (to see if there were any controls put in place to make the study scientifically viable). I do have a link to a scientifically viable study which shows that prayer is useless or even detrimental if anyone's interested....

Secondly, I would like to ask a question / make a statement with regards to prayer.

As I understand it, prayer is a request from a moral being to an immortal supernatural being – namely, a God. So in essence, a prayer is a human being asking a God to do something for either themselves or another person (or group). Is this correct, because this is my understanding of prayer?

Assuming I am correct, what is suggested by prayer is that God should turn his attention to the individual (or group) saying the prayer, assess it's validity and then either chose to answer said prayer or not.

This explanation makes three assumptions. First, God actually exists and is listening; He is capable of changing the course of reality; He is willing to change to course of reality due to the needs/wants of a moral human.

Aren't people who pray to God to help them or others simply suggesting that God doesn't know what He's doing? By asking Him to intervene, they're effectively saying that God's got it wrong or is unaware.

As far as I can see, praying to God is almost blasphemous because you're questioning His plan for you and others.

Who are you to ask God for anything?

[birdie1971]

Correction to the above, “moral human”

should read,

“mortal human”.

[birdie1971]

Arrgh! I've just read my post again. Every 'moral' should be 'mortal'.

D'oh!

[Ankou]

they are not always requests for him to intervene. sometimes they are telling him how brilliant he his (presumably at staying hidden for several thousand years).

[Lonnie]

The power of Prayer.

As you may know, I have a handicapped daughter, both families, my wifes and my own are religious, they have prayed constantly for her, along with various Christian friends.

Made not a single bit of difference, although I was touched that they did it.

Made them feel good, and thats really what prayer is all about, makes the prayee feel good, but doesn't work.

[birdie1971]

Lonnie – I didn't know about your daughter. I'm sorry if my post has touched a nerve or upset you in any way. That was not my intention.

It's just my personal opinion that prayer does not work. It may make a person making the prayer feel better, but I honestly don't believe that it has any benefit to the person being prayed for.

[birdie1971]

Ankou - “... sometimes they are telling him how brilliant he is...”

Don't you think He knows? The creator of the universe must be a very vain character if He constantly wants to be reminded how brilliant He is.

...

Isn't vanity a sin?

[beso]

Praying for someone in the usual sense is done by pleading to a philosophically conceived all powerful deity that might intervene in the course of nature. My ojection is to this externalisation of the spirit and handing it over to a hideous spirit who is unworty of our respect let alone our worship.

I do not doubt that there is a much greater connection between us all than is apparent. I also believe it is possible to form a higher level of consciousness as a collection of organisms in the same way our bodies are built of individual cells. But not as a subject of a brutal all powerful anthropocentric creator.

But belief accumulated in one place can influnece the mob. Here is the immense danger of religion. In subscribing to the Apocalyptic faiths, billions of believers across the planet are unconsciously working towards fulfilling the prophesies set out by some ancient biggot who apparently managed to put a spell over them. They actually look forward to Armageddon as proof of their faith.

If we are going to cure the ills of this planet we must convince the half of its human populaltion who subsribe to the Abrahamic faiths, to snap out of the trance. We have no chance while each of these faiths continues with their cult belief in the return of their Messiah who leading them to glorious victory and death to all others.

This sick philosophy must be overturned. The thinking people of the world are not nearly aware enough of the danger faced from all kinds of Abraham's Minions and their brutal wars agains each other in His name. The history or our time on this planet has been dominated be violence in the name of one form of god or another. It is time to put a stop to it.

I see praying to God in the biblical context is praying to this monster. By all means pray but keep away from that bastard philosophy conceived out of the weird ruminations of a schitzophrenic who lived thousands of years ago.

[Lonnie]

Not a problem at all birdie, I just mentioned it as a personal reason as to why prayer doesn't work, we even had a 'laying on of hands', (desperation), but all that was years ago.

And as to your last bit in your last reply, I agree with you 100%, I suppose it makes the preyee feel they are doing something.

[birdie1971]

Beso – Take a bow my friend. What a spectacularly eloquent and intelligent answer!

[Ankou]

well i think vainglory is probably a deadly sin or cardinal vice, but not entirely sure that them as writes the rules has to live by them.

[naomi24]

Beso, very well said. Excellent!