Listener 4256 - Boxes By Radix

[olichant]

Oh my goodness.

What an incredible feat from Radix. I have not been able to put this down since I got a foothold in - the construction, symmetry and elegance make the mind boggle. I am slightly ashamed that I used a late-twentieth-century technique to make headway, and (for the moment) I cannot imagine how I could have completed it otherwise.

Truly humbling. Thanks, Radix. I think I can now understand what people see in numericals!

[TheBear69]

I did use computational aids but there is a logical way in that requires nothing more than simple multiplication and subtraction. This allows one to automatically enter 14 cells, I think.

[fortyseven]

Well, that was an effort. About the hardest Listener numerical I have solved. Took me about a day of fairly continuous concentration. It would have been much easier to solve if I could have remembered how to write programs in BASIC (shows my age!). Having filled in a few squares which were reasonably obvious, I used EXCEL a lot, but never more than 600 lines or so in solving a clue. How did Radix manage to get it to end with such a neat and apposite word?

[EAChaplin]

Now what was the name of that song? They're all made out of ticky-tacky and they all look just the same. Thousands of 'em.

[jim360]

After poring over many thousands of excel cells and calculations... finally arrived at a consistent solution which has a thematic final word. I can't even begin to imagine what it must have been like to set this one.

[Cloverjo]

Well, got there in the end. Worth it to see it all come together. Great feat of construction. Thanks, Radix.

[Ruthrobin]

We finally got there after a Monday start and are absolutely stunned by the ingenuity of this gifted construction. Brilliant, Radix! To say that we were challenged is an understatement. This required a Stakhanovite effort!

[dr b]

Having had a chance to ponder the experience for a few days, I like the puzzle more than I did when I finished, much as I often like a strenuous hiking trip more after I have been back home for a while.

[jockie]

Has anyone managed to complete this without using anything more advanced than a calculator? Those who have completed it are awe-struck by its elegance, and I would love to share their joy. But having no skill with spreadsheets I fear it may be beyond me. I'm not willing to slog through thousands of squarings and addings, and judging from the time of the first posting a PC does it remarkably quickly. Perhaps it's a bit like being taken by helicopter to the top of Ben Nevis - the view is stunning but a machine did the work.

[olichant]

jockie, I think (for me) that's the $64,000 question. I used a computer (tragically, an old BBC 32k - I was staying up late looking after an elderly relative, and amazingly, they still had their old computer plugged in) and there is no doubt that it bypassed a lot of menial labour. As another poster asked - is this cheating? I doubt that the editors aren't trying to test the ability to write simple programs or use relatively complex spreadsheets.

On a second look, and with the benefit of hindsight, there are certainly some routes in based on deducing *parts* of answers, so I feel sure that there must be a more principled (and doubtless, satisfying) way of cracking this.

I still really enjoyed it. I like the helicopter analogy - though at least, I did build and fly the helicopter!

[olichant]

sorry, I meant to say, I doubt that the editors *are* trying to test...

[emcee]

I will be interested to see the model solution to this puzzle which will presumably be based on a calculator only approach.

Frankly I was not prepared to spend hours on a calculator when a few lines of Pascal did the trick. Don't be fooled into thinking that the program solved the puzzle for me - it didn't, all it did was save time with the donkey work: there was still much to do with the lists of possibilities.

To reiterate, I await their solution with interest!

[JackDeCrow]

Can someone recommend a version of WinCalc and somewhere to download it from? Really need to make some progress on the next couple of days! I have around 8 "obvious" cells, and a few narrowed down to 2 or 3 options, but not seeing anywhere else to go and typing questions in here is the extent of my computing expertise!

[Monkmonk]

JDC
If you post your email address I will send you a couple of useful links

[JackDeCrow]

Thanks MonkMonk - [email protected]

[Postigod]

Making slow but steady progress without writing a computer program. Using Excel, but so far only to create and search a grid for all values of A^2 + B^2 for 1 or 2 digit A, B. Now in theory that's doable with a calculator and pencil, but only if you have the patience of a saint!

[MMiggins]

I've got 17 of the c values (heights), which I am sure are correct, but I can't see how to get the thematic word. :(

[crosswhit99]

If you have enough heights you can make an educated guess at the message they spell (explaining how to obtain the word), and that in turn will give you extra help in solving your other 7 clues.

[MMiggins]

Maybe I have gone wrong. My c values don't form words.

[perseverer]

Finally finished - thanks to using Excel. You can certainly enter a number of cells straight off, as TheBear69 said, and if you tackle the clues in the correct order, you can reduce the number of possibilities you have to try for other clues, but I reckon it would have taken me another 100 years just using a calculator! And I think I have RSI from overuse of the mouse scroll wheel.
I think I will now go and see if I can resurrect my extremely limited BBC Basic programming skills.

MHiggins - I don't want to give anything away on here, but every word of the preamble is there for a reason.

[MMiggins]

Thanks, perseverer. I think I know what you mean. :)