the poor lose out again

[DrFilth]

don't you love it when the tories say > in real terms <

does this mean they were only joking or lying terms last time

http://itn.co.uk/uk/2...out+in+NHS+reforms%27


god help the sick under the tory and liberals

[Kromovaracun]

'Real Terms', as any A-level economics student could tell you, is a statistical term expressing the value of an investment/money once real-world variables have been factored in (it usually refers to the figure you get when you adjust spending to be in line with inflation):

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Real_terms

[factor-fiction]

"In real terms" is an accepted term which has been used by all parties and govenments for many years.

[Kromovaracun]

So, to give an example, the argument the government gave in the '80s for health spending declining as a % of GDP was that GDP had grown and inflation was lower, so 'in real terms', spending on health was going up (which is true for some years but I think the general trend in-real-terms for the decade was simply that spending didn't actually decline much. Been a while since I last read up on this though so I may be wrong).

[DrFilth]

Kromovaracun hope you don't have to go in or you may find these real terms are more like fake terms

next door to me her mother was rushed in , spent the night there next day signed herself out

one nurse for the whole ward, the old lady opposite had to wait just over 30 minutes for the nurse to bring her the commode

she said sod it i am going home

[Kromovaracun]

?

I don't see how that affects what I'm saying at all.

I'm not denying waiting times went down, but that seems to have been for different reasons than funding (mostly the management reforms being pushed through by the govt in the late '80s).

[Kromovaracun]

Plus can we please dispell the notion that an anecdote from your neighbours' mother invalidates big-picture statistical analysis of one particular thing that doesn't even have a hard-and-fast link to it? It's not logical and is a rather frustrating aspect of politics.

[DrFilth]

real terms , fake terms = lying sods

and it is only going to get worse

[Kromovaracun]

"real terms , fake terms = lying sods "

I've provided you with quite an elaborate definition of what is actually meant by 'real terms' and a link explaining it further. It's a very, very common (and useful) term in economics.

[DrFilth]

>> DAVID Cameron maintained that the NHS was safe in Tory hands as he outlined the first significant changes to the government's controversial NHS reforms.

David Cameron admitted ministers had “learnt a lot” in recent weeks and insisted that many people had changed their minds about the proposals.

In a speech to NHS staff in London, the Prime Minister admitted there were areas of the reforms that needed to change. <<

[Kromovaracun]

What? I don't see what point you're trying to make.

[Kromovaracun]

"I'm not denying waiting times went down"

I meant went up. Oops.

[factor-fiction]

You clearly have strongly held views on this topic, DrFilth, and I doubt any points we make will change your mind

[Kromovaracun]

Personally, I'm not trying to - if he's anti-tory, that's fine by me. I'm just trying to clear up his misunderstanding of the use of the phrase 'real terms', which is actually perfectly legitimate.

[DrFilth]

factor itchy who use to post on ab has now got his mother back home
if he or one of his brothers or his sister had not stayed with her when she was in hospital

let me just say i don't think she would still be here

sign over the bed said blind

when the food came it was just placed on the tray at the end of the bed how was that blind person supposed to see it

same with tablets, plonked down

wait till some of you on here see it for yourself then you might have a different view

[Kromovaracun]

For Chrissake....

I am not disputing any of that. I'm not trying to present a rosy picture of the health service. I'm not trying to say that your or your mates haven't had bad experiences - or that they're uncommon. But your question (if you have one) is about stats, figures etc. and the use of the word 'real terms'. Which I have explained to you and you seem to be ignoring.

Now, your experiences and the stats - in this case - do not contradict each other. Or not necessarily, anyhow, as far as I can tell. But if you're going to even begin to try and intelligently assess the problems of the health service, the complexity of them and their nuances, you need to be able to understand that and try to fill in the gaps from there. Now someone's inevitably going to come along and accuse me of being patronising or something like that, but you know what? It's the truth. And I'm not one for rejecting evidence for no reason other than that I dislike it or that it's not in-line with something that I'm aware happened to someone else.

[Sqad]

Dr Filth....your points on the NHS are well taken, but you have undermined your issue by politicising it.

The inadequacies of the NHS have been highlighted and also increasing under ALL Political Parties.

[DrFilth]

sqad i know of one case that would knock a few people sick on here but i think there is an ongoing legal case over it.

at the end of the day the ones in power who said the nhs are safe in our hands are lying

they can fiddle all the figures they want to make people like Kromovaracun speak up for them

it is the poor who have no bupa membership who lose out
it is those who want to see a specialist who have the long wait who lose out
it is those who need a special drug with a dear price who lose out

at the end of the day if one of the above is your son or daughter, mum or dad
you will then lose out

[Sqad]

But all those things have happened under a LABOUR Government as well as Tory.........

[Kromovaracun]

"they can fiddle all the figures they want to make people like Kromovaracun speak up for them"

So despite the meaning of the words 'in real terms' being explained to you quite extensively, with a link for further information, you are actively choosing to continue to believe your initial judgement on it.

sigh...

[DrFilth]

Kromovaracun don't trust them they wanted your vote now they are in power they will fill their own pockets

when you get older you will see for yourself