Quizzes & Puzzles22 mins ago
324 Covid Deaths Yesterday, And 2,095 Cases Are They Easing Lockdown Too Early ?
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Ken, we could set up something like those war graves cemeteries, with a big monument saying "In memory of those who gave their lives for the economy".
12:13 Sat 30th May 2020
ymb -- I am not doing an "I am right and everyone else is wrong" thing. Twisting, lying, manipulation -- I don't do those things. Never. If that is what you see then that's a problem for you, but I'm sad and, yes, angry, that that is your response. Anyone would be angry at such libellous and false allegations.
Tens of thousands of people in the UK have died, more so than usual, and your only response is to accuse anyone who points this out of scaremongering.
Tens of thousands of people in the UK have died, more so than usual, and your only response is to accuse anyone who points this out of scaremongering.
ff, Go back to the death rates. In the UK over 14% of all cases have died. The lowest death rate I am aware of is Iceland's at 0.55%. Unless I managed to mess up the calculation that equates to 180 or so (taking them as a sub-group of the total) for the UK working age population IF the UK had done what Iceland (also an island) did. One can be less ambitious and choose a less successful outcome, a different country to compare with.
They (Iceland) had a plan for the epidemic scenario which they implemented and stuck to. They were testing for the virus four weeks before registering the first positive - they took note of the impending threat. Within a day or two of the first handful of cases turning up they notified Austria that a particular ski resort had an infection reservoir and marked it as a risk area - the Austrians denied it for long enough to export Covid 19 to several other countries (court cases are under way and the local health officials are charged). They (Iceland) then almost immediately put all care/nursing homes into isolation. They tested and traced (never suggesting it was World Beating) rigorously and put every contact into quarantine. They moved all positives needing hospitalisation to within reach of the best care available in the country (the island is larger than Scotland). They monitored every single case by telephone and if/when a case began to turn bad they brought them into reach of good medical facilities. They had sufficient supplies of test kits, PPE, etc. and have carried out more tests per capita than any other nation. From the outset they took care to be totally transparent about developments and the public response was a very close compliance with all rules and recommendations. Daycare and primary schools were not closed and there was no lockdown. From first case via a steep climb to the peak was four weeks and a further four weeks going down brought the first day of zero new cases.
Let's not ask that the UK manage to be THE or even among the best, let's just say it should have been at least around the middle. It could have been far, far better positioned than it is today but for mismanagement - which I do not lay at the foot of any particular political party but down to culture. The number of dead is shocking, unless one refuses to learn what can and has been achieved.
The argument that Icelanders can't count and can't keep records will not wash - among other things they have online records which allow every individual to trace his/her ancestry back some centuries and in many cases back more than a millennium (stopping where immigrants come into the lineage). They are able to produce figures that are so comprehensive and up to date that, yes, Britons find it not just astonishing but unbelievable (but it is nevertheless a fact).
The prevailing culture in the UK is too often one of disinterest in and denial of reality and it is causing immense damage.
They (Iceland) had a plan for the epidemic scenario which they implemented and stuck to. They were testing for the virus four weeks before registering the first positive - they took note of the impending threat. Within a day or two of the first handful of cases turning up they notified Austria that a particular ski resort had an infection reservoir and marked it as a risk area - the Austrians denied it for long enough to export Covid 19 to several other countries (court cases are under way and the local health officials are charged). They (Iceland) then almost immediately put all care/nursing homes into isolation. They tested and traced (never suggesting it was World Beating) rigorously and put every contact into quarantine. They moved all positives needing hospitalisation to within reach of the best care available in the country (the island is larger than Scotland). They monitored every single case by telephone and if/when a case began to turn bad they brought them into reach of good medical facilities. They had sufficient supplies of test kits, PPE, etc. and have carried out more tests per capita than any other nation. From the outset they took care to be totally transparent about developments and the public response was a very close compliance with all rules and recommendations. Daycare and primary schools were not closed and there was no lockdown. From first case via a steep climb to the peak was four weeks and a further four weeks going down brought the first day of zero new cases.
Let's not ask that the UK manage to be THE or even among the best, let's just say it should have been at least around the middle. It could have been far, far better positioned than it is today but for mismanagement - which I do not lay at the foot of any particular political party but down to culture. The number of dead is shocking, unless one refuses to learn what can and has been achieved.
The argument that Icelanders can't count and can't keep records will not wash - among other things they have online records which allow every individual to trace his/her ancestry back some centuries and in many cases back more than a millennium (stopping where immigrants come into the lineage). They are able to produce figures that are so comprehensive and up to date that, yes, Britons find it not just astonishing but unbelievable (but it is nevertheless a fact).
The prevailing culture in the UK is too often one of disinterest in and denial of reality and it is causing immense damage.
It's always going to be tricky to disentangle what is clear in hindsight from what could have been seen at the time. What troubles me right now is how we went from being "three weeks behind" Italy and Spain to being more or less level with them, and indeed worse by many measures, including the all-important excess mortality. It's hard not to wonder if the time we had to spare was wasted. Whether that was preventable or not, it deserves to be understood thoroughly.
Pixie, almost all the countries that have managed coronavirus well got into lockdown quickly, whether people were ready or not. The government may have been trying to be nice to people by not rushing them; but the death toll has been high.
There have been other ways of dealing with it, particularly trace and track, but we didn't do that either.
There have been other ways of dealing with it, particularly trace and track, but we didn't do that either.
I agree jno. I said on here we needed to, before it had got to this country even. I think it had moved from China to one other by that point. But everyone was very very against it (except me). It was a kneejerk reaction, impossible, pointless, etc etc... but we did manage it when it was just slightly too late.
Arghhh, this is driving me up the bloody wall.
Karl says 14% of those who have caught it have died, conveniently ignoring the fact (and it is a cold hard fact) that the vast vast majority majority of those who have succumbed are elderly and/or vulnerable.
We need to protect the elderly and vulnerable, that goes without saying, but for everybody else it should be business as usual.
If those who are not elderly and/or vulnerable but still wish to cower being their sofa in fear and dread, they can continue to do so, but for people who have a more robust mental outlook, they should be allowed to go about their business.
Karl says 14% of those who have caught it have died, conveniently ignoring the fact (and it is a cold hard fact) that the vast vast majority majority of those who have succumbed are elderly and/or vulnerable.
We need to protect the elderly and vulnerable, that goes without saying, but for everybody else it should be business as usual.
If those who are not elderly and/or vulnerable but still wish to cower being their sofa in fear and dread, they can continue to do so, but for people who have a more robust mental outlook, they should be allowed to go about their business.
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