Miss America - Good Looks Out!

[vetuste_ennemi]

https://citizen.co.za/news/news-world/1945715/miss-america-pageant-bans-swimsuits-and-judging-contestants-on-appearance/

Good news for fat feminists everywhere: you can enter the contest and, rather than be judged on white patriarchal standards of beauty, be judged instead on "talent and brain".

Seems to me this is sending mixed messages to all the "thick" women out there.

[kvalidir]

Yeah but at 12 and 14 girls do have the wrong end of the stick OG, that's why this is important, and society is changing no-one is happy with anorexic 14 year olds walking the runway anymore and are taking steps to address the reasons that happened in the first place.
Of course some people are beautiful and some aren't that's the luck of the draw and how much effort you make with yourself, but a beauty contest where it's physical looks and weight alone is just a competition to see which woman most men would like to sleep with and most women would like to be like, it's actually not a lot to do with beauty as a whole at all, and I have no problem with that if it's not dressed up as something it isn't. Beauty is an objective word in this instance and it's all a bit hysterical that people are losing their minds because slightly heavier girls in a normal weight range might be included, it's a threat thing, maintaining the elite illusion of what beauty is, which has changed throughout the ages as we know.

[murraymints]

American pageants traditionally call for a talent spot.. some sing, dance, read poetry etc etc.. not all about looks..so the Miss America is now coming more into line by considering an all round assessment of a person... clearly looks will always be the main consideration, such is human nature, but an outstanding nature can shine through....

[Old_Geezer]

Then parents should tackle the issue at source, which would be their children's outlook, and teaching them what is right. It seems to be the thing these days not to fix any concern but instead changing the world for all in order to avoid it.

[naomi24]

kvalidir, //it's all a bit hysterical that people are losing their minds because slightly heavier girls in a normal weight range might be included//

I can’t see any evidence of hysteria or of anyone ‘losing their minds’, and I see no mention of “slightly heavier girls in a normal weight range” either. According to the blurb //The competition will in future reward talent and brains and reward women ‘of all shapes and sizes’.//

The original competition is simply no more.

[kvalidir]

Naomi - a lot of people on this thread are very annoyed that prancing around in a swimsuit with no other ability than to look 'doable' is no longer considered to be 'enough', so yes there is plenty of hysteria about it, otherwise this thread wouldn't be in existence and people wouldn't using phrases like 'fat feminists' would they?

[naomi24]

kvalidir, you have a strange idea of what constitutes 'hysteria'.

[Deskdiary]

You and I have very different definitions of hysteria.

[kvalidir]

Perhaps you live in a more hysterical world Naomi and therefore set your bar higher lol. It's not my question, nor me who is getting upset, I'm simply wondering why everyone is so annoyed that society is changing. cheer up it's not important in the big scheme of things.

[naomi24]

kvalidir, my world is not the subject of this discussion. However, I would take an educated guess that the people who complain the loudest about competitions like this are those who would have no hope of winning them. Perhaps lest the less well-endowed feel undermined, we should also ditch University Challenge and Mastermind.

[sp1814]

I’m actually surprised that this competition is still ongoing. Probably because it seems so old fashioned.

If women want to go into a competition to be judged like heifers at a country fair, good luck to them. However, their subsequent prospects are pretty thin on the ground now that footballers tend to opt for reality tv stars rather than beauty queens nowadays.

[jim360]

In one sense, at least, it's a shame that your world *isn't* the topic of discussion, Naomi. Beauty pageants have their place in a world where women, particularly young women, do not feel defined by their chances of winning such a competition; in a world where good looks aren't defined as an achievement.

We don't live in that world. In particular, the existence of *child* beauty pageants proves that we do not.

[naomi24]

Jim, //In one sense, at least, it's a shame that your world *isn't* the topic of discussion, Naomi. //

In what sense would that be?

[jim360]

That's what I thought I went on to explain...

[naomi24]

Clearly it didn't work. What are you talking about?

[mushroom25]

//.....reward women ‘of all shapes and sizes’//

legally of course, this can include Beatrice, who was until last week Brian, who has yet to have reassignment surgery but is female by dint of self declaration. so talent, brains, a hairy back and a beard that wouldn't look out of place on a caliph.....

[sp1814]

Here’s the thing - if a woman wins Mastermind or leads the winning team on University Challenge, that’s admirable, because she has proven intellect, and applied herself to mastering a subject.

If a woman wins a beauty competition, she has not really achieved anything, because her beauty has nothing to do with her. It’s all about her genes, plus the skills of the hair and make-up people.

Let’s put it this way - if you had a 12 year old daughter and you asked her what she wanted to be as an adult, you’d feel proud if she said, doctor, engineer, teacher or scientist. I think most parents would feel less proud if she answered, “Pretty, with a 36-22-34 figure”.

[EDDIE51]

It says it wants to avoid sexism.So when can we expect it to become unisex contest and just call itself something like 'Citizen of America Contest' ?

[sp1814]

Anyway, this is all cobblers. You either be honest and hold beauty pageants based on beauty, or you scrap the whole thing. You cannot have a halfway house.

It just doesn’t work.

[jim360]

OK. You said that, "Some have got it [beauty], some haven't. I'm happy with that." If everyone (and, in particular, young woman) had that attitude, then there would be no problem with beauty pageants.

Everyone does *not* have that attitude, and beauty is defined, for some, as an achievement, an aspiration -- and, consequently, that *not* having it is a failure. That's not a healthy attitude. That's not the attitude you profess to having. Ergo, it's a shame that we are not living in your world: the world where beauty pageants could have their place in society without being a pressure on many young girls to conform to an idealised beauty standard.

[naomi24]

sp, your analogy doesn’t work. Brains are as ‘God-given’ as beauty. In either instance, if people make the most of what they have, good for them. We shouldn't expect anyone to ignore their attributes for fear of causing offence.

Jim, I haven’t said any of that. You're living in a world of your own construct - again.