Thousands Of Gay Men Pardoned For Past Convictions

[mikey4444]

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-38814338

Great news for the families of these men. They should never have been subject to this bigotry in the first place.

[anotheoldgit]

Perhaps rather than issue such pardons the time would be better spent campaigning against those who still persecute homosexual, but then that might upset the thinking of the liberal elite?

[andy-hughes]

AOG - ///// ignorance and bigotry ///

Out roll your usual insults against those that don't toe the liberal thinking line. //

I disagree that those epithets are issued by mikey because people 'don't toe the liberal thinking line' as you put it. I believe, and I think the majority of modern society would agree with me - that using the law to punish people because you are offended by how they behave is singularly bad use of the legal system.

There are dozens of behaviours that are considered abhorrant to the majority of society which do not and did not attract the level of police attention and legal punishment that was meted out to homosexual men before the laws were changed.

/// Anyway, there is nobody on here that still thinks its an offence, which goes to show how enlightened most have become. ///

Thank goodness it is deemed no longer a criminal offence, but that does not mean that it is not deemed offensive for some. //

No argument there of course. We all have to live with the fact that people choose to do things that some of us think are repugnant, but that is one of the prices we pay for a free society.

// A change in the law or total acceptance of homosexuality does not mean that to some the thought of perpetration sex between two males is no longer thought repulsive and no matter how liberal thinking one may be, it won't alter that fact. //

Again, no argument, but we simply have to accept that we may not necessarily agree with, or understand some of the behaviours of others with whom we share the planet, but that does not automatically them wrong, and it certainly should not mean that they are punished by the legal system for behaving in a way which does not have a negative impact on society as a whole.

// We all have certain individual tastes and distastes, and one also cannot alter that fact. // And amen to that- vive le difference!

But let's be sure that although we are all entitled not to like the way others behave, we are not entitled to bring summary punishment down on them for it - that is bad use of the law.

[andy-hughes]

Canary42 - //"This move sends an important signal, in that what people get up to in bed is none of anybody else's business, not should it ever have been. "

I think that statement needs some qualification, to exclude pederasty. //

Some things, I think we can take as read, without the need to write them down for others to read -

The sun has risen this morning ...
The force of gravity is working normally ...
The earth is spinning on its axis ...
Pederasty is wrong ...

I'm sure you get the idea.

[mikey4444]

Canary.....I think its quite clear that we mean that this applies to males of 16 and above, so no qualification is required.

[andy-hughes]

AOG - //Perhaps rather than issue such pardons the time would be better spent campaigning against those who still persecute homosexual, but then that might upset the thinking of the liberal elite? //

The two actions are not mutually exclusive - just because society is enacting one does not mean it cannot enact the other at the same time.

But that aside - I fail to see why action against people persecuting homosexuals would upset anyone's thinking, especially 'the liberal elite' - or, as the rest of us would say - normal people.

[anotheoldgit]

Canary42

/// I think that statement needs some qualification, to exclude pederasty. ///

And in the interests of equality "sexual acts between a woman and a girl".

Interesting though, there doesn't seem to be a word for that.

[horselady]

I was talking to my granddaughter, telling about things that used to happen, like the way women weren't allowed to vote, the way black people were treated, about Rosa Parkes etc, and also about the way gay people were thought of as criminals (I phrased it as people the same sex loving each other, she's only 8) and the more I spoke the more I realised how truly dreadful things once were. I mean, who decided that women, non-whites and gays were inferior for gods sake, what arrogance there must have been among the so-called better classes.

[andy-hughes]

horselady - In the same way that people with power rarely use that power to give themselves less of anything, the more 'educated' some people are, the more they think it their right to assume the moral high ground and dictate how others should live, love, and generally conduct themselves.

History shows that these positions of power are, by default, the premise of the rich, and sadly, very often those riches were similarly acquired by a somewhat derelict view of the proper way to treat other people - creating a self-perpetuating assumption of privilege and a seriously unhealthy sense of cant and hypocrisy.

Generations ago, it was mill and factory owners who got to behave in this way, now it is bankers and politicians, but sadly, human nature is always prone to corruption when the necessary factors are aligned.

[anotheoldgit]

horselady

A touch of indoctrinating one's 8 year old granddaughter eh?

Have you any Grandsons, if so I do hope your partner points out how males have been (and still are if it comes to that) sent out to face muck and bullets, sweat over laying roads, railways and cutting canals, building bridges and quarried for stone, slate and coal.

Yes its has not all been sunshine for men either.

[mikey4444]

"A touch of indoctrinating one's 8 year old granddaughter eh?"

Indoctrinating ?

Are you serious ?

When did telling children about discrimination count as "indoctrinating"

[andy-hughes]

AOG - // Have you any Grandsons, if so I do hope your partner points out ... //

This is 2017 - Grandmothers are allowed to educate Grandsons and Grandfathers are allowed to educate Granddaughters - and women can vote, and drive cars, and work, and everything!!!!

Isn't modern life wonderful!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[horselady]

Yes AOG I do have grandsons and would discuss discrimination with them. That is nothing to do with the fact that men hard a hard life.

[andy-hughes]

horselady - AOG does tend to view the world as somewhat black and white.

[anotheoldgit]

horselady

/// Yes AOG I do have grandsons and would discuss discrimination with them. That is nothing to do with the fact that men hard a hard life. ///

If a certain body of people in this case men, have been forced to lead a hard life, whereas another group have been spared those particular hardships, then that is indeed discrimination against that certain body of people.

[Mamyalynne]

Discussing the way the world used to be with children is hardly indoctrination.

My Grandson sometimes asks me if people on AB are real when I've shown him some threads , I explain that some have very set ways.

[andy-hughes]

AOG - //If a certain body of people in this case men, have been forced to lead a hard life, whereas another group have been spared those particular hardships, then that is indeed discrimination against that certain body of people. //

If some people had hard physical jobs, that was because that was the job they elected and were paid to do - there is no 'discrimination' there whatsoever!

[andy-hughes]

Mamya - Very 'set' indeed - some are veritable concrete!!

[whiskeryron]

I agree with AOG & NJ .These sexual acts between men were illegal at the times of prosecution & in law perpetrators were guilty & dealt with accordingly. You could affirm that ALL laws designed by man are not in agreement to ALL people, so in a democracy you have to agree with the majority, so back to square one guilty was guilty & no amount of talk can alter the fact, & to say that the change in the law has made it acceptable to all is simple not true.

[mikey4444]

Ron....the point that we are making is that its shouldn't have been a crime at the time. It can't be anybodies business what two people get up to in bed.

[pixie374]

It shouldn't have been- but it was. There is no point reapplying laws years later- how many laws have changed overy the years? Where do we start or stop?