News8 mins ago
The English Democrats
did anyone see their party political broadcast on tv last evening, interesting to say the least, they are English not British, and most definitely not European, fun watching, not sure i would give them a vote though
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Answers
Odd ball characters just because they have England at heart? Being English myself there are not enough speaking up for England, there are enough wanting to protect their own cultures and heritage, why shouldn't the English? /// "There is a forgotten, nay almost forbidden word, which means more to me than any other. That word is England". /// Sir Winston...
09:04 Tue 13th May 2014
/// I personally find 'British' a more appealing identity than English. ///
/// Who are the "English" ? ///
It is time AnswerBankers were made to include their particular nationality in their profile, we would then know who we are debating with, then perhaps we could make allowances for their prejudices.
/// Who are the "English" ? ///
It is time AnswerBankers were made to include their particular nationality in their profile, we would then know who we are debating with, then perhaps we could make allowances for their prejudices.
/since there isn't such a country as 'Britain'/
funny
I thought my Passport mentioned it
/Nothing contrived, England and the English have been around for many a long year/
Indeed, but they have never had many of the things we are justifiably proud of:
The British Army, Royal Navy and RAF
The British Empire
British Culture
British inventions and innovations
because we find that all of those include major contributions from the English, Welsh, Irish and Scottish
funny
I thought my Passport mentioned it
/Nothing contrived, England and the English have been around for many a long year/
Indeed, but they have never had many of the things we are justifiably proud of:
The British Army, Royal Navy and RAF
The British Empire
British Culture
British inventions and innovations
because we find that all of those include major contributions from the English, Welsh, Irish and Scottish
Just a few great Englishmen.
Sir Timothy Berners-Lee (born 1955), inventor of the World Wide Web
Christopher Cockerell (1910–1999), inventor of the hovercraft
Abraham Darby (c. 1678 – 1717), ironmaster
James Hargreaves (1720–1778), weaver and inventor
Rowland Hill (1795–1879), inventor of the modern postal service
Thomas Newcomen (1664–1729), inventor
Sir Isaac Newton (1642–1727), founder of modern physics, inventor of the reflector telescope
George Stephenson (1781–1848), engineer
Joseph Wilson Swan (1823–1914), inventor of the light bulb
Sir Frank Whittle (1907–1996), inventor of the jet engine
Charles Darwin (1809–1882), Founder of The Theory of Evolution
Michael Faraday (1791–1867), scientist
Isambard Kingdom Brunel (1806–1859), transport engineer
Sir Geoffrey de Havilland (1882–1965), aeronautical engineer
Sir John Ambrose Fleming (1848–1945), electrical engineer
Sir Timothy Berners-Lee (born 1955), inventor of the World Wide Web
Christopher Cockerell (1910–1999), inventor of the hovercraft
Abraham Darby (c. 1678 – 1717), ironmaster
James Hargreaves (1720–1778), weaver and inventor
Rowland Hill (1795–1879), inventor of the modern postal service
Thomas Newcomen (1664–1729), inventor
Sir Isaac Newton (1642–1727), founder of modern physics, inventor of the reflector telescope
George Stephenson (1781–1848), engineer
Joseph Wilson Swan (1823–1914), inventor of the light bulb
Sir Frank Whittle (1907–1996), inventor of the jet engine
Charles Darwin (1809–1882), Founder of The Theory of Evolution
Michael Faraday (1791–1867), scientist
Isambard Kingdom Brunel (1806–1859), transport engineer
Sir Geoffrey de Havilland (1882–1965), aeronautical engineer
Sir John Ambrose Fleming (1848–1945), electrical engineer
Well a list of just a selected 15 rather proves the point that the development of Britain as a global super power was a joint enterprise that went beyond just the English.
Perhaps aog can also furnish us with a map showing where The English Empire was?
And a list of any victories achieved by The English Army since 1707
Perhaps aog can also furnish us with a map showing where The English Empire was?
And a list of any victories achieved by The English Army since 1707
"I thought my Passport mentioned it [Britain]"
I've no wish to be pedantic, zeuhl, but it does not. It only mentions Great Britain as a component part of the United Kingdom and does so to provide the UK's full name. On the front cover:
----------------------------------------------
European Union [what else would be first?]
United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland
Passport
---------------------------------------------------------
The United Kingdom is the sovereign state that issues the passport. None of the component parts are entitled to issue passports which would be recognised elsewhere.
This entire debate has arisen because of all the component parts of the UK it is the largest and by far and away the most populous - England - that seems to have been ignored by the devolution process. The Scots, Welsh and Northern Irish each have their devolved assemblies with varying powers of self-government. Nobody objects to measures which benefit solely the population of those countries. Parts of the UK budget have been hived off for their sole benefit. Many costs and charges applicable in England are not levied in those countries. But any hint that the English may wish to enjoy similar privileges is met with howls of derision.
It is my belief that the devolution arrangements were seen as an ideal vehicle to satisfy the requirements of the Maastricht Treaty. This encouraged the creation of regional boundaries for selection of members for the Committee of the Regions of the European Union: Wales, Scotland and Northern Ireland had each constituted a region, but England represents such a large proportion of the population of the United Kingdom that further division was thought necessary. You may remember that John Prescott was a keen proponent of Regional Assemblies in England and they had already been set up and run by unelected people. Prescott organised a referendum in 2004 in the North East (the area thought most likely to agree) to gain support for elected Assemblies (similar to Scotland , Wales and NI) but his proposals were soundly rejected by almost four to one. The unelected Assemblies were abolished in 2009-10 and I believe it is seen that the English had their chance and blew it.
So we have the situation where the other "regions" (which conveniently line up with national borders) have their "government" (which are, in fact, little more than Regional Assemblies) but the petulant English (with the exception of Londoners who were conned into believing they would simply have an elected mayor like New York's Rudy Guiliani but instead finished up with a Regional Assembly) have not.
I've no wish to be pedantic, zeuhl, but it does not. It only mentions Great Britain as a component part of the United Kingdom and does so to provide the UK's full name. On the front cover:
----------------------------------------------
European Union [what else would be first?]
United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland
Passport
---------------------------------------------------------
The United Kingdom is the sovereign state that issues the passport. None of the component parts are entitled to issue passports which would be recognised elsewhere.
This entire debate has arisen because of all the component parts of the UK it is the largest and by far and away the most populous - England - that seems to have been ignored by the devolution process. The Scots, Welsh and Northern Irish each have their devolved assemblies with varying powers of self-government. Nobody objects to measures which benefit solely the population of those countries. Parts of the UK budget have been hived off for their sole benefit. Many costs and charges applicable in England are not levied in those countries. But any hint that the English may wish to enjoy similar privileges is met with howls of derision.
It is my belief that the devolution arrangements were seen as an ideal vehicle to satisfy the requirements of the Maastricht Treaty. This encouraged the creation of regional boundaries for selection of members for the Committee of the Regions of the European Union: Wales, Scotland and Northern Ireland had each constituted a region, but England represents such a large proportion of the population of the United Kingdom that further division was thought necessary. You may remember that John Prescott was a keen proponent of Regional Assemblies in England and they had already been set up and run by unelected people. Prescott organised a referendum in 2004 in the North East (the area thought most likely to agree) to gain support for elected Assemblies (similar to Scotland , Wales and NI) but his proposals were soundly rejected by almost four to one. The unelected Assemblies were abolished in 2009-10 and I believe it is seen that the English had their chance and blew it.
So we have the situation where the other "regions" (which conveniently line up with national borders) have their "government" (which are, in fact, little more than Regional Assemblies) but the petulant English (with the exception of Londoners who were conned into believing they would simply have an elected mayor like New York's Rudy Guiliani but instead finished up with a Regional Assembly) have not.
Thanks for that excellent summary NJ
As you point out, our passports assign us to Great *Britain*
as a component of the UK
Naturally, no mention is made of 'England' itself
I agree with you that devolution for other parts of the UK has aroused feelings of under representation in England - though I expect the English in Northumberland could also claim that the entire country of Great Britain is too London-centric.
The weakness of this 'England' argument is that it's vague and simplistic definition seems to miss the massive contribution from the other home countries into Britain's development over the past 200 years.
Perhaps the inhabitants of a remote Norfolk village have a different experience, but as a sample of One; I was born and raised in Liverpool and much of my time in the UK has been spent in London and Bath.
Therefore, many of the English-born people I have known, like me, didn't have to go many generations back to find Welsh, Irish and Scots.
That inter mingling and the continuous cultural borrowing and shared experiences make the term 'British' far more appropriate than 'English' for the majority of people in England.
Or does an English fan of War Movies find the 'singing scene' in 'Zulu, or the Lord Lovat plus Piper sequence in 'The Longest Day' totally unintelligible and unmoving?
As you point out, our passports assign us to Great *Britain*
as a component of the UK
Naturally, no mention is made of 'England' itself
I agree with you that devolution for other parts of the UK has aroused feelings of under representation in England - though I expect the English in Northumberland could also claim that the entire country of Great Britain is too London-centric.
The weakness of this 'England' argument is that it's vague and simplistic definition seems to miss the massive contribution from the other home countries into Britain's development over the past 200 years.
Perhaps the inhabitants of a remote Norfolk village have a different experience, but as a sample of One; I was born and raised in Liverpool and much of my time in the UK has been spent in London and Bath.
Therefore, many of the English-born people I have known, like me, didn't have to go many generations back to find Welsh, Irish and Scots.
That inter mingling and the continuous cultural borrowing and shared experiences make the term 'British' far more appropriate than 'English' for the majority of people in England.
Or does an English fan of War Movies find the 'singing scene' in 'Zulu, or the Lord Lovat plus Piper sequence in 'The Longest Day' totally unintelligible and unmoving?
"were made to include their particular nationality in their profile, we would then know who we are debating with, then perhaps we could make allowances for their prejudices"
I thought you didn't give out personal info, AOG?
Also - what is "prejudiced" about saying I, personally, do not identify as English?
I thought you didn't give out personal info, AOG?
Also - what is "prejudiced" about saying I, personally, do not identify as English?
NJ, succinct as always, I am English, born of English parents, who's parents were also English, lets get this one straight, so at least 100 years or more, though going on some ancestry tracking i suspect both sides of the family came from Ireland, but that was way way back, and not sure how to trace the family tree that far without spending shed loads of dosh, or visiting the Emerald Isle.
whilst we are about it, my passport says the following
European Union
United Kingdom of Great Britain
and Northern Ireland,
note not England, nor just Britain
i would happily trade a sack of something useful to have my old dark
blue British non EU passport back, this little red book reminds me of Chairman's Mao's great epic, only rather scaled back, its an ugly little thing, the passport that is,
European Union
United Kingdom of Great Britain
and Northern Ireland,
note not England, nor just Britain
i would happily trade a sack of something useful to have my old dark
blue British non EU passport back, this little red book reminds me of Chairman's Mao's great epic, only rather scaled back, its an ugly little thing, the passport that is,
as London has taken the brunt of uncontrolled immigration,
saddoes who like to plant bombs the IRA, Muslims take your pick, endless endless noise, pollution, mega expensive property prices, rents out of control, and not nearly enough space to roam around with being knocked over by some dim witted cyclists, i am more afraid of them than any juggernaut, at least i can see that coming, they on the other hand are often boorish boobies, with absolutely no sense or responsibility whatsoever, pavements are for pedestrians, they don't seem to understand that fact.
Had i Donald Trumps billions, or even a small share, i would be out of here like a shot, the neighbourhood now looks like downtown Islamabad, on a bad day. Sadly i am not convinced that moving to the country with the yokels will work either, those Cornish pixies can be a devil's own brew, where are you DT.
saddoes who like to plant bombs the IRA, Muslims take your pick, endless endless noise, pollution, mega expensive property prices, rents out of control, and not nearly enough space to roam around with being knocked over by some dim witted cyclists, i am more afraid of them than any juggernaut, at least i can see that coming, they on the other hand are often boorish boobies, with absolutely no sense or responsibility whatsoever, pavements are for pedestrians, they don't seem to understand that fact.
Had i Donald Trumps billions, or even a small share, i would be out of here like a shot, the neighbourhood now looks like downtown Islamabad, on a bad day. Sadly i am not convinced that moving to the country with the yokels will work either, those Cornish pixies can be a devil's own brew, where are you DT.
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