Winter Fuel Payment To Go ?

[mikey4444]

Labour have announced that they will axe the Winter Fuel payment for wealthy people. Its not really a party political issue as the Tories have muttered about doing something similar. This will save about £100m a year, which is a lot of Libraries. What do we think here on AB ?

Personally I am not sure why they should get it in the first place, just like Child Benefit. Handouts like this should go to those that really need it.

[ummmm]

If he isn't wealthy then he will still receive it.

[Zeuhl]

desktop

does your stepfather's pension incur Higher Rate income tax?

[Zeuhl]

'Higher Rate' desktop?

[naomi24]

Good. I hope child benefit goes the same way. Benefits should not be an expectation, or a lifestyle, but simply a temporary measure to fill the gap when people are genuinely in need of help.

[ummmm]

Child benefits were introduced instead of tax cuts so the main carer received the extra instead of the bread winner.

[Zeuhl]

desktop

if he doesn't pay Higher Rate income tax he isn't affected at all by the proposal to stop the Winter Fuel Payment

[Sqad]

Well....whilst drinking my whisky settled in my red leather chair at my Club and before going to swim my 30lenghts, i have given it further thought.

Brought in by Gordon Brown during the "all singing and dancing" era of the Labour Party, we are indeed in very choppy waters and any savings would be welcomed.
So, yes, I do feel that the Winter Fuel Allowance should be means tested and i will clearly be the loser......but the wealthy should give up more of their wealth in tough times.

So Jake......and Mickey........I will support it.

Which next for means testing?......Child Benefits?.....

[LazyGun]

It is difficult to argue that anyone with an income of around £40K a year needs a state handout to cover winter fuel.

And whilst £100M is not a large amount in the context of the overall costs to the public purse, every little helps-

I do wonder how they would plan to means test it though, and how much that would cost?

[emmie]

what is the money criteria, as some think earning 20 grand is wealthy if they have very little.

[LazyGun]

@Em - I think I read or heard that Labours proposal is for households (? or individuals? not sure) with an income of greater than £42,000 per year would not receive the winter fuel payment.

I am still unclear how they propose to means test this though, and how much that itself would cost...

[Old_Geezer]

I think

a) Pensions earned by citizens or if preferred a citizen's right by virue of the fact they are a citizen of this coutry, should be large enough not to need to give further handouts as if the older individual is being given charity.

b) That the cost or targetting the payments plus the destruction of personal pride in having to be one who shows they need it, is not a system a government should favour.

Also one needs to distinguish between that which is a welfare 'Safety Net' and that which is a right as a citizen and not confuse the two.

The simple answer would be to admit the fuel payment can only be there because the pension fails to cover the need; scrap it, and increase the pension to compensate.

[Old_Geezer]

Trying again:

I think

a) Pensions earned by citizens or if preferred a citizen's right by virtue of the fact they are a citizen of this country, should be large enough not to need to give further handouts as if the older individual is being given charity.

b) That the cost or targeting the payments plus the destruction of personal pride in having to be one who shows they need it, is not a system a government should favour.

Also one needs to distinguish between that which is a welfare 'Safety Net' and that which is a right as a citizen and not confuse the two.

The simple answer would be to admit the fuel payment can only be there because the pension fails to cover the need; scrap it, and increase the pension to compensate.

[Zeuhl]

/I do wonder how they would plan to means test it though, and how much that would cost?


I am still unclear how they propose to means test this though, and how much that itself would cost... /

Isn't it just linked to the tax system? don't pay anyone in higher rate band

Or am I missing something?

[Zeuhl]

OG agreed

/distinguish between that which is a welfare 'Safety Net' and that which is a right as a citizen and not confuse the two./

Successive governments have artfully muddied 'entitlements' into 'social security benefits'


/The simple answer would be to admit the fuel payment can only be there because the pension fails to cover the need; scrap it, and increase the pension to compensate. /

That would be more honest. And the tax system can already reduce the benefit to the better-off if that is required

[Sqad]

Zeuhl......You ARE missing something.............;-)

All those rich b@stards who have decided to reside in another country (how dare they), do not pay UK Tax.

So the UK Government would have to contact the Inland Revenue of the resident country for their income tax returns.

The answer would be:

"P1ss off...we have problems of our own."

[Zeuhl]

Sqad

So if it is logistically difficult, do you fear a blanket 'take it off all the deserters' approach regardless of how 'wealthy' they are?

[emmie]

what about all those who were low earners, then earned a bit more, so weren't wealthy all along, but still paid their contributions also all along. do they get penalised for earning a little bit more.
what about the people who have never worked, so have never contributed a penny to the pot, yet will get the winter fuel allowance, does that seem fair?
from what i was reading it would ultimately cost more to implement the system of means testing the so called wealthy, than to keep on as they are. I don't know the answer but i do think that some who have worked hard, paid their dues, lots of spondoolicks into the overall pot, yet will have something taken away from them they are perfectly entitled to.