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Nhs Identity Cards
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In view of the NHS being abused by health tourists, would the introduction of NHS membership ID cards be a good idea?
In view of the NHS being abused by health tourists, would the introduction of NHS membership ID cards be a good idea?
Answers
“we already carry an EHIC card (Or should) if we are travelling in Europe, when the boot's on the other foot.... “ The difference is, box tops, that when you pitch up to a hospital abroad the first thing they ask for (before they take your pulse) is your EHIC, credit card or medical insurance policy details. In fact some countries will not allow you entry...
18:35 Mon 04th Mar 2013
i doubt they are oppressive, i reserve that for cctv, more insidious than id cards, but can't see it happening... whilst we are there, every time one uses a bank card that shows where you are, your transactions are on a database, i can see my bank details online, it doesn't show whether you bought booze or food of course, but another way for the powers that be to trace you..
//
Zeuhl
/I was quite happy to carry an ID card during WW2 & cannot for the life of me understand the objections raised against them. /
Because they were useless WR
Having a piece of cardboard to show a policeman might have given everyone a cosy feeling
But I suspect the Germans worked out how to print them pretty quickly don't you? // I'm not talking about pieces of cardboard. How many of you have been issued with a plastic card when renewing your drivers' licence or travel pass ? or are you suggesting there is a black market for these items as well. I appreciate that there is not a 100% guaranteed solution but surely something needs to be done.
WR.
Zeuhl
/I was quite happy to carry an ID card during WW2 & cannot for the life of me understand the objections raised against them. /
Because they were useless WR
Having a piece of cardboard to show a policeman might have given everyone a cosy feeling
But I suspect the Germans worked out how to print them pretty quickly don't you? // I'm not talking about pieces of cardboard. How many of you have been issued with a plastic card when renewing your drivers' licence or travel pass ? or are you suggesting there is a black market for these items as well. I appreciate that there is not a 100% guaranteed solution but surely something needs to be done.
WR.
Sorry Ron
I wasn't clear.
My point is that the WW2 piece of cardboard was easily circumvented using 1940s technology
Today's plastic is easily cloned by today's technology - if someone can design a security measure, someone else can usually find a way round it - and if the security involves putting key personal data on the system, one has to say that the government have a poor record in managing and safeguarding our personal data.
I wasn't clear.
My point is that the WW2 piece of cardboard was easily circumvented using 1940s technology
Today's plastic is easily cloned by today's technology - if someone can design a security measure, someone else can usually find a way round it - and if the security involves putting key personal data on the system, one has to say that the government have a poor record in managing and safeguarding our personal data.
“we already carry an EHIC card (Or should) if we are travelling in Europe, when the boot's on the other foot.... “
The difference is, box tops, that when you pitch up to a hospital abroad the first thing they ask for (before they take your pulse) is your EHIC, credit card or medical insurance policy details. In fact some countries will not allow you entry unless you can prove you have medical insurance. Here it is somewhat different. NHS establishments seem to have no facilities to charge patients.
“There is no credible evidence that large numbers of Bulgarians and Romanians will be coming to Britain.”
Quite true, ichkeria. But there is even less credible evidence to suggest that they will not. However, in view of the “Polish” experience (estimate 13,000, actual >500,000) and the fact that the government is “reluctant” to publish any forecasts, I’m inclined to believe that quite a few new arrivals will make their way here.
“Health Tourism” is and has been a problem for years and the NHS seems unwilling or unable to address it. It will only get worse. As with most other things the Prime Minister talks a good talk and it remains to be seen whether the measures he suggests will be taken and, even more important, whether they will be effective.
It does intrigue me that people many people seem perfectly OK to see the NHS used by anybody who arrives here regardless of how much they have or are likely to pay towards its funding. I wonder how many would be similarly impressed if their car insurers covered the claims of motorists who had not paid their premiums?
Still no matter. If, as Jake suggests, it cost the country “only” £200m a year we’ve no need to worry. So long as the incomers get all the attention they need who cares if a few older people go blind waiting for retina or cataract surgery or have to exhaust their life savings paying for their healthcare in the meantime? Why worry if a few A&E departments close down risking lives? We can blame it all on the Daily Mail.
The difference is, box tops, that when you pitch up to a hospital abroad the first thing they ask for (before they take your pulse) is your EHIC, credit card or medical insurance policy details. In fact some countries will not allow you entry unless you can prove you have medical insurance. Here it is somewhat different. NHS establishments seem to have no facilities to charge patients.
“There is no credible evidence that large numbers of Bulgarians and Romanians will be coming to Britain.”
Quite true, ichkeria. But there is even less credible evidence to suggest that they will not. However, in view of the “Polish” experience (estimate 13,000, actual >500,000) and the fact that the government is “reluctant” to publish any forecasts, I’m inclined to believe that quite a few new arrivals will make their way here.
“Health Tourism” is and has been a problem for years and the NHS seems unwilling or unable to address it. It will only get worse. As with most other things the Prime Minister talks a good talk and it remains to be seen whether the measures he suggests will be taken and, even more important, whether they will be effective.
It does intrigue me that people many people seem perfectly OK to see the NHS used by anybody who arrives here regardless of how much they have or are likely to pay towards its funding. I wonder how many would be similarly impressed if their car insurers covered the claims of motorists who had not paid their premiums?
Still no matter. If, as Jake suggests, it cost the country “only” £200m a year we’ve no need to worry. So long as the incomers get all the attention they need who cares if a few older people go blind waiting for retina or cataract surgery or have to exhaust their life savings paying for their healthcare in the meantime? Why worry if a few A&E departments close down risking lives? We can blame it all on the Daily Mail.
The issue is distinguishing between actual 'health tourists' (i need an operation let's go to UK, have it there then when they hand me the bill, disappear) and people who fall ill or have an accident while here.
/Still no matter. If, as Jake suggests, it cost the country “only” £200m a year/
I think the report jake quoted estimated the cost of the former behaviour as 'between £50 and 200 million'. It was the media that chose to adopt the higher end of the estimate.
Regarding the latter behaviour, presumably we wouldn't want to step over diseased or bleeding foreigners as we enter our hospitals. Particularly when they are there through no fault of their own and haven't premeditated the need for medical care in the same way a non insured driver does.
/wonder how many would be similarly impressed if their car insurers covered the claims of motorists who had not paid their premiums?/
Well we do.
If an insurance company goes bust, the industry looks after claimants when they are without insurance through no fault or premeditation on their part.
/Still no matter. If, as Jake suggests, it cost the country “only” £200m a year/
I think the report jake quoted estimated the cost of the former behaviour as 'between £50 and 200 million'. It was the media that chose to adopt the higher end of the estimate.
Regarding the latter behaviour, presumably we wouldn't want to step over diseased or bleeding foreigners as we enter our hospitals. Particularly when they are there through no fault of their own and haven't premeditated the need for medical care in the same way a non insured driver does.
/wonder how many would be similarly impressed if their car insurers covered the claims of motorists who had not paid their premiums?/
Well we do.
If an insurance company goes bust, the industry looks after claimants when they are without insurance through no fault or premeditation on their part.
“presumably we wouldn't want to step over diseased or bleeding foreigners as we enter our hospitals”
Other nations seem to manage to ensure their health systems are not taken for a ride without giving that impression, Zeuhl. Why can’t we?
The comparison you make with motorists is not appropriate. The Motor Insurers’ Bureau pays compensation to people who have suffered damage or injury at the hands of an uninsured driver. They do not meet claims for losses incurred by the uninsured drivers themselves. The FSA meets claims from motorists whose insurer has gone bust. But again they do not meet claims from motorists who simply failed to buy adequate insurance. Both these schemes are funded by levies on insurers and are, effectively, additional insurance bought and paid for by policyholders. The key to this is your phrase “…claimants [who are] without insurance through no fault or premeditation on their part.”. Anyone travelling to a country without adequate medical insurance and who expects the taxpayers of that nation to meet their medical needs most certainly does exhibit both fault and premeditation.
Other nations seem to manage to ensure their health systems are not taken for a ride without giving that impression, Zeuhl. Why can’t we?
The comparison you make with motorists is not appropriate. The Motor Insurers’ Bureau pays compensation to people who have suffered damage or injury at the hands of an uninsured driver. They do not meet claims for losses incurred by the uninsured drivers themselves. The FSA meets claims from motorists whose insurer has gone bust. But again they do not meet claims from motorists who simply failed to buy adequate insurance. Both these schemes are funded by levies on insurers and are, effectively, additional insurance bought and paid for by policyholders. The key to this is your phrase “…claimants [who are] without insurance through no fault or premeditation on their part.”. Anyone travelling to a country without adequate medical insurance and who expects the taxpayers of that nation to meet their medical needs most certainly does exhibit both fault and premeditation.
sure there's more info to be had,
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