News1 min ago
Patrick Moore: "The only food Kraut is a dead Kraut
Is there a time limit for hatred?
Let's bring race into it (hoorah, I hear you cry)...if a black chap from the Deep South who'd witnessed lynchings in the 40s and 50s had said, "The only good white man is a dead white man", would that be more or less shocking than what Mr Moore had said?
Indeed - should we be shocked at all?
http://www.dailymail....b-killed-fianc-e.html
Let's bring race into it (hoorah, I hear you cry)...if a black chap from the Deep South who'd witnessed lynchings in the 40s and 50s had said, "The only good white man is a dead white man", would that be more or less shocking than what Mr Moore had said?
Indeed - should we be shocked at all?
http://www.dailymail....b-killed-fianc-e.html
Answers
shed off the shackles of slavery
What do you actually mean?
It is (artfully but not helpfully) vague when compared with sp's very clear analogy with people alive today who saw loved ones killed by whites in the 1950s.
What do you actually mean?
It is (artfully but not helpfully) vague when compared with sp's very clear analogy with people alive today who saw loved ones killed by whites in the 1950s.
13:10 Tue 01st May 2012
He is entitled to carry on his hatred for the germans, as people carry their hatred of the white people for slavery (which thankfully was abolished here, but still not in certain countries of the world) All I can say is hatred like a boulder on ones shoulder is soul destroying, the sooner it is got rid of the better one feels regarding life.
Zeuhl
/// Sorry Old Git but that is a meaningless concept. ///
Surely that should read "Sorry Old Git but 'IN MY OPINION' that is a meaningless concept".
May I disagree? I consider my concept with slavery a perfectly meaningful concept.
In my opinion If we want to move on, we must learn to forget what went before,and concern ourselves with what is happening now, not what happened 1,000 years ago, 200 years ago or even 70 years ago.
Getting back to my analogy with slavery, if certain sections of our communities are not prepared to forget Britain's involvement in the slave trade or that of our Empire, then how can we ever hope to achieve full integration between the peoples of these Islands?
If we are the perpetual 'Bad Guys' how is it that people the world over are only too pleased to flock to these shores so as to 'sleep with the enemy'?
/// Sorry Old Git but that is a meaningless concept. ///
Surely that should read "Sorry Old Git but 'IN MY OPINION' that is a meaningless concept".
May I disagree? I consider my concept with slavery a perfectly meaningful concept.
In my opinion If we want to move on, we must learn to forget what went before,and concern ourselves with what is happening now, not what happened 1,000 years ago, 200 years ago or even 70 years ago.
Getting back to my analogy with slavery, if certain sections of our communities are not prepared to forget Britain's involvement in the slave trade or that of our Empire, then how can we ever hope to achieve full integration between the peoples of these Islands?
If we are the perpetual 'Bad Guys' how is it that people the world over are only too pleased to flock to these shores so as to 'sleep with the enemy'?
Surely that should read "Sorry Old Git but 'IN MY OPINION' that is a meaningless concept".
No.
Unless otherwise stated, all my posts are 'my opinion' so it hardly seems necessary to point that out in selected instances.
Old Git
the need to remember, acknowledge and learn from past experiences is an essential part of life and growth.
That is true of slavery, wars, good deeds, bad deeds, everything.
The only realistic alternative is to suppress or deny those experiences.
Are you seriously suggesting we should somehow 'forget' the war.
Why would that be a good thing?
And how do you suggest we do that - even if it was desirable.
No.
Unless otherwise stated, all my posts are 'my opinion' so it hardly seems necessary to point that out in selected instances.
Old Git
the need to remember, acknowledge and learn from past experiences is an essential part of life and growth.
That is true of slavery, wars, good deeds, bad deeds, everything.
The only realistic alternative is to suppress or deny those experiences.
Are you seriously suggesting we should somehow 'forget' the war.
Why would that be a good thing?
And how do you suggest we do that - even if it was desirable.
AOG
Your argument is something else entirely. Slavery is one thing, but my comparison to what happened in the Deep South in America 60/70 years ago is much more pertinent to what Mr Moore has said, because it happened in the same timeframe.
But essentially it seems you agree with me - by saying what he's said, Mr Moore is essentially standing shoulder to shoulder with those who demand an apology for the transgressions of someone's forefathers.
Your argument is something else entirely. Slavery is one thing, but my comparison to what happened in the Deep South in America 60/70 years ago is much more pertinent to what Mr Moore has said, because it happened in the same timeframe.
But essentially it seems you agree with me - by saying what he's said, Mr Moore is essentially standing shoulder to shoulder with those who demand an apology for the transgressions of someone's forefathers.
mightyWBA
He was interviewed, made a statement and it's been published. Are you saying that because of his age, his sentiments shouldn't be discussed?
Don't you think that's a little patronising?
Also, bazwillrun - you wrote:
Its his opinion and he is entitled to it, if people dont agree with it then thats their problem[i
I don't know how to respond to that without sounding patronising, but I'll give it a go...
Your statement doesn't actually say anything. You've stated the obvious, but added nothing to the debate. You could say [i]Its his opinion and he is entitled to it, if people dont agree with it then thats their problem] about literally anything that anyone says - but in and of itself...it doesn't actually mean anything.
I acknowledge that I failed in my attempt not to sound patronizing.
He was interviewed, made a statement and it's been published. Are you saying that because of his age, his sentiments shouldn't be discussed?
Don't you think that's a little patronising?
Also, bazwillrun - you wrote:
Its his opinion and he is entitled to it, if people dont agree with it then thats their problem[i
I don't know how to respond to that without sounding patronising, but I'll give it a go...
Your statement doesn't actually say anything. You've stated the obvious, but added nothing to the debate. You could say [i]Its his opinion and he is entitled to it, if people dont agree with it then thats their problem] about literally anything that anyone says - but in and of itself...it doesn't actually mean anything.
I acknowledge that I failed in my attempt not to sound patronizing.
Zeuhl
What are you suggesting that we remove the words 'in my opinion' from the English language?
Isn't it correct to attribute a certain passage to a particular source, such as author etc.
So therefore isn't an individual just being a tiny dogmatic in their argument, if they make a statement without first making it known in some way that it is in their own opinion?
/// Are you seriously suggesting we should somehow 'forget' the war. ///
Of course not, especially when one like myself, (but not you I would imagine) has actually experienced the horrors of war, so I am in no way suggesting such a thing.
But like all horrible things that we have come to experience throughout life, humans have a built in mechanism that makes each passing day a little easier to forget such things, if we didn't possess this ability to forget, we would all end up under the care of mental experts.
Unfortunately there are some who manage to squeeze through this inbuilt filter and cannot forget, and it is those unfortunates who do suffer mental problems.
What are you suggesting that we remove the words 'in my opinion' from the English language?
Isn't it correct to attribute a certain passage to a particular source, such as author etc.
So therefore isn't an individual just being a tiny dogmatic in their argument, if they make a statement without first making it known in some way that it is in their own opinion?
/// Are you seriously suggesting we should somehow 'forget' the war. ///
Of course not, especially when one like myself, (but not you I would imagine) has actually experienced the horrors of war, so I am in no way suggesting such a thing.
But like all horrible things that we have come to experience throughout life, humans have a built in mechanism that makes each passing day a little easier to forget such things, if we didn't possess this ability to forget, we would all end up under the care of mental experts.
Unfortunately there are some who manage to squeeze through this inbuilt filter and cannot forget, and it is those unfortunates who do suffer mental problems.
Old Git
with due respect and without being pedantic you write about 'forgetting' (the war, slavery etc) but you seem to actually be advocating that over time events need to be 'put into perspective' and I agree with you.
That's why I think we should acknowledge this country's part in slavery without slipping into 'apology' because that would be inappropriate at this time.
Going back to sp's analogy of the lynchings in the USA in the 50s clearly there are still people alive who should give and receive apologies and we certainly should remember those events as evidence of what seemingly civilised people in our own lifetimes are capable of.
When I visited the American South I was mindful of suchrelatively recent events and can't imagine circumstances in which I would have preferred to be ignorant of them.
Regarding Patrick Moore in the light of your argument, I think it's appropriate he speak about his bitterness toward the Germans who brought death and destruction to his door - but I think saying in 2012 that 'the only good kraut is a dead one' is way beyond that and therefore rather silly.
P.S. The phrase 'in my opinion' is usually reserved for when one is quoting the ideas or statements of others and it is useful then to flag-up when something is one's own or for emphasis when one is contradicting another opinion.
Otherwise it should be assumed that people are expressing what is their own opinion
with due respect and without being pedantic you write about 'forgetting' (the war, slavery etc) but you seem to actually be advocating that over time events need to be 'put into perspective' and I agree with you.
That's why I think we should acknowledge this country's part in slavery without slipping into 'apology' because that would be inappropriate at this time.
Going back to sp's analogy of the lynchings in the USA in the 50s clearly there are still people alive who should give and receive apologies and we certainly should remember those events as evidence of what seemingly civilised people in our own lifetimes are capable of.
When I visited the American South I was mindful of suchrelatively recent events and can't imagine circumstances in which I would have preferred to be ignorant of them.
Regarding Patrick Moore in the light of your argument, I think it's appropriate he speak about his bitterness toward the Germans who brought death and destruction to his door - but I think saying in 2012 that 'the only good kraut is a dead one' is way beyond that and therefore rather silly.
P.S. The phrase 'in my opinion' is usually reserved for when one is quoting the ideas or statements of others and it is useful then to flag-up when something is one's own or for emphasis when one is contradicting another opinion.
Otherwise it should be assumed that people are expressing what is their own opinion
Zeuhl
Yes now you are beginning to construct a logical argument, but why is it all about blacks being hard done by in the past?
There have been many equally atrocities committed against others, even in this century we have witnessed atrocious acts committed against the Jews, the Bosnians, and even some evil perpetrations committed by blacks on other blacks on the continent of Africa, but these things are not forever being used as some form of lever.
Yes now you are beginning to construct a logical argument, but why is it all about blacks being hard done by in the past?
There have been many equally atrocities committed against others, even in this century we have witnessed atrocious acts committed against the Jews, the Bosnians, and even some evil perpetrations committed by blacks on other blacks on the continent of Africa, but these things are not forever being used as some form of lever.
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