The Post Office Horizon Enquiry
News2 mins ago
Drugs Decriminalisation: Naive "Celebs" Know Nothing.
A whole host of so called "celebrities" have been canvassing the Government calling for drugs to be decriminalised. The poor, misguided fools!
Have any of them actually seen a dead druggie? With a needle sticking out of a vein? Their body blackened and bloated? The staring eyes? I have.
Have any of them had to go and inform families that their son/daughter's been found like that in some stinking hovel? I have.
Have any of them seen the lives wrecked by not only the drugs dealers, but by the poor sad individuals addicted to these substances? I have.
Have any of them seen the wider ramifications of drug addiction? The little experiement with a bit of weed which swifly can spiral out of control into full blown addiction to hard drugs, crack cocaine, smack etc. The dependancy which often leads to a life of crime to finance the habit? The intolerable strain placed on the likes of the NHS because of such addictions? The families rent asunder by loved ones who are no longer the nice people they once were because of the effects of these substances? I have.
No, no way should any government scrap the drugs offences laws which, some might say, are never properly enforced anyway. It would be the slippery slope to rack and ruin.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-13625241
Have any of them actually seen a dead druggie? With a needle sticking out of a vein? Their body blackened and bloated? The staring eyes? I have.
Have any of them had to go and inform families that their son/daughter's been found like that in some stinking hovel? I have.
Have any of them seen the lives wrecked by not only the drugs dealers, but by the poor sad individuals addicted to these substances? I have.
Have any of them seen the wider ramifications of drug addiction? The little experiement with a bit of weed which swifly can spiral out of control into full blown addiction to hard drugs, crack cocaine, smack etc. The dependancy which often leads to a life of crime to finance the habit? The intolerable strain placed on the likes of the NHS because of such addictions? The families rent asunder by loved ones who are no longer the nice people they once were because of the effects of these substances? I have.
No, no way should any government scrap the drugs offences laws which, some might say, are never properly enforced anyway. It would be the slippery slope to rack and ruin.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-13625241
Answers
You’re quite right, ixiom, currently policy isn’t working. But you’re not quite right, Zeuhl. The evidence is not that prohibition does not work. Rather it is that prohibition not properly enforced does not work.
The current policy seeks to treat addicts as “
The current policy seeks to treat addicts as “
19:47 Thu 02nd Jun 2011
Have you read the report that has prompted them to send the open letter?
http://www.globalcommissionondrugs.org/Report
http://www.globalcommissionondrugs.org/Report
Some years ago there was a renegade GP who prescribed diamorphine in low doses to some of /hisher heroin addicts rather than methadone... he/ she was convinced that taking them out of the high risk behaviors that accompany drug abuse was preferable to providing a substitute that had many questions as to its effectiveness and led the users to sell it for other illegal substances. many of the addicted patients assured of an adequate supply without the risk of HIV/hepatitis etc were able to maintain a more normal lifestyle including work/restoring family links and then were in a better place to attempt a gradual reduction.. I believe the GP was struck off but I wonder if it is time for a properly constituted study with a large group to see if it has tangible benefits...
Kerosene, have you seen the dead body of a young drug dealer shot in he face by another drug dealer?
Have you seen the state of a 15 year old girl, hooked on drugs by her pimp, and forced into prostitution to pay for the drugs.
Have you seen the papers day after day of drug gangs fighting for their patch and killing anyone who gets in the way.
Have you any idea of the crime drug dependats go to to get the money to pay for their daily fix - mugging old ladies, stealing from shops, breaking into houses.
When was the worst case of crime in the USA - in the 1920s during prohibition. Make somwthing illegal and you provide a great way for criminals to make money.
Legalize drugs and you take out the huge opportunity to make money, and so the pushers wont have any reason to push the drugs.
Nobody is saying it is nice when people hooked on drugs die, but they are dying now anyway so making drugs legal will at least keep some sort of control on it.
Have you seen the state of a 15 year old girl, hooked on drugs by her pimp, and forced into prostitution to pay for the drugs.
Have you seen the papers day after day of drug gangs fighting for their patch and killing anyone who gets in the way.
Have you any idea of the crime drug dependats go to to get the money to pay for their daily fix - mugging old ladies, stealing from shops, breaking into houses.
When was the worst case of crime in the USA - in the 1920s during prohibition. Make somwthing illegal and you provide a great way for criminals to make money.
Legalize drugs and you take out the huge opportunity to make money, and so the pushers wont have any reason to push the drugs.
Nobody is saying it is nice when people hooked on drugs die, but they are dying now anyway so making drugs legal will at least keep some sort of control on it.
from the guardian
The letter launching the campaign, Drugs – It's Time for Better Laws, has been organised by the national drugs charity Release. Other signatories include the film director Mike Leigh, actors Julie Christie and Kathy Burke and leading lawyer Sir Geoffrey Bindman QC. The former Labour drugs minister Bob Ainsworth and three former chief constables, Paul Whitehouse, Francis Wilkinson and Tom Lloyd, have all put their names to the letter.
It points out that nearly 80,000 people were found guilty or cautioned for the possession of illegal drugs – most of whom were young, black or poor – in 2010. Over the past decade, more than a million people have ended up with a criminal record as a result of the drug laws.
The letter coincides with Thursday's New York launch of the report of the Global Commission on Drug Policy, which counts three former South American presidents, the former secretary-general of the United Nations Kofi Annan and Sir Richard Branson among its membership.
"The war on drugs has failed to cut drug usage, but has filled our jails, cost millions in tax payer dollars, fuelled organised crime and caused thousands of deaths. We need a new approach, one that takes the power out of the hands of organised crime and treats people with addiction problems like patients, not criminals," said Branson, founder of the Virgin Group, who is to appear at the launch.
The letter launching the campaign, Drugs – It's Time for Better Laws, has been organised by the national drugs charity Release. Other signatories include the film director Mike Leigh, actors Julie Christie and Kathy Burke and leading lawyer Sir Geoffrey Bindman QC. The former Labour drugs minister Bob Ainsworth and three former chief constables, Paul Whitehouse, Francis Wilkinson and Tom Lloyd, have all put their names to the letter.
It points out that nearly 80,000 people were found guilty or cautioned for the possession of illegal drugs – most of whom were young, black or poor – in 2010. Over the past decade, more than a million people have ended up with a criminal record as a result of the drug laws.
The letter coincides with Thursday's New York launch of the report of the Global Commission on Drug Policy, which counts three former South American presidents, the former secretary-general of the United Nations Kofi Annan and Sir Richard Branson among its membership.
"The war on drugs has failed to cut drug usage, but has filled our jails, cost millions in tax payer dollars, fuelled organised crime and caused thousands of deaths. We need a new approach, one that takes the power out of the hands of organised crime and treats people with addiction problems like patients, not criminals," said Branson, founder of the Virgin Group, who is to appear at the launch.
You’re quite right, ixiom, currently policy isn’t working. But you’re not quite right, Zeuhl. The evidence is not that prohibition does not work. Rather it is that prohibition not properly enforced does not work.
The current policy seeks to treat addicts as “victims” of an illness. It sets out to excuse their commission of acquisitive, orderless and often violent crime as symptoms of that illness and usually overlooks the real victims of their criminal behaviour. With a very few exceptions, nobody forced addicts to take drugs from the outset. It is a choice they made usually fully aware of the probable consequences. It should be viewed in the same way as getting sunburnt is when you're in the Army - a self-inflicted injury.
The answer is to provide stiffer penalties for transgression, not to decriminalise what is a staggeringly dangerous pursuit. Far stiffer drug rehabilitation community sentences need to be imposed for first offenders and rigorous enforcement of those sentences, resulting in custody for those failing to comply, and for repeat offenders, is needed.
It needs less use of “cautions” by the police, revised sentencing guidelines for magistrates and judges, more probation staff for supervision and enforcement (accompanied by a change in the probation service’s philosophy), more prison places, greater preventative measures to stop drugs finding their way into prisons, and a lot more money.
So it won’t happen and we’ll muddle along as at present, hauling addicts before the courts time after time but treating them as victims instead of as criminals, and sending them on their way to reoffend.
The Luvvies’ idea is preposterous. They can have absolutely no idea of the consequences of legalising drugs. To suggest that if drugs are available freely and legitiimately then addicts will suddenly become law-abiding (but stoned) individu
The current policy seeks to treat addicts as “victims” of an illness. It sets out to excuse their commission of acquisitive, orderless and often violent crime as symptoms of that illness and usually overlooks the real victims of their criminal behaviour. With a very few exceptions, nobody forced addicts to take drugs from the outset. It is a choice they made usually fully aware of the probable consequences. It should be viewed in the same way as getting sunburnt is when you're in the Army - a self-inflicted injury.
The answer is to provide stiffer penalties for transgression, not to decriminalise what is a staggeringly dangerous pursuit. Far stiffer drug rehabilitation community sentences need to be imposed for first offenders and rigorous enforcement of those sentences, resulting in custody for those failing to comply, and for repeat offenders, is needed.
It needs less use of “cautions” by the police, revised sentencing guidelines for magistrates and judges, more probation staff for supervision and enforcement (accompanied by a change in the probation service’s philosophy), more prison places, greater preventative measures to stop drugs finding their way into prisons, and a lot more money.
So it won’t happen and we’ll muddle along as at present, hauling addicts before the courts time after time but treating them as victims instead of as criminals, and sending them on their way to reoffend.
The Luvvies’ idea is preposterous. They can have absolutely no idea of the consequences of legalising drugs. To suggest that if drugs are available freely and legitiimately then addicts will suddenly become law-abiding (but stoned) individu
VHG
1: Yes, I've seen the bodies of several dead druggies at close quarters.
2: Yes, I've met dozen of prossies who were also druggies for one reason or another.
3: The drugs racket is big business throughout the western world and gangs do indeed kill/maim/fight rivals to get a piece of the action. Nothing new there.
4: Yes, I have wide experience of druggies involved in crime - it is very commonplace, and I've met loads of their victims.
5: Criminals will find ways of making money come what may. It does not mean that we simply give up and say "Fair enough, take these drugs, kill yourselves, let the rest of society help foot the bill, wreck other lives as well as your own, that's alright so just carry on and we'll all turn a blind eye to it. Continue mugging the old grannies etc to get money for your fix."
6: "Legalize drugs.." Okay, and while we're at it, why not also decriminalise prostitution/paedophilia/rape/murder/armed robbery etc etc because the people who do it ain't gonna stop no matter what. Let's just give up and leave them to it? The present system doesn't work so just cave in because it's easier than trying to find solutions.
7: The vast majority of drugs addicts are also criminals who quite frankly are so desperate to get dosh for their next fix that they simply do not care where they get it from - strangers, family, friends, the man in the moon. Decriminalising drugs would only encourage them even more and would do society a massive disservice.
9: I wonder how many respondents on here have seen dead druggies at close quarters, or have any experience of the aftermath caused by the habit? Don't all shout at once.
1: Yes, I've seen the bodies of several dead druggies at close quarters.
2: Yes, I've met dozen of prossies who were also druggies for one reason or another.
3: The drugs racket is big business throughout the western world and gangs do indeed kill/maim/fight rivals to get a piece of the action. Nothing new there.
4: Yes, I have wide experience of druggies involved in crime - it is very commonplace, and I've met loads of their victims.
5: Criminals will find ways of making money come what may. It does not mean that we simply give up and say "Fair enough, take these drugs, kill yourselves, let the rest of society help foot the bill, wreck other lives as well as your own, that's alright so just carry on and we'll all turn a blind eye to it. Continue mugging the old grannies etc to get money for your fix."
6: "Legalize drugs.." Okay, and while we're at it, why not also decriminalise prostitution/paedophilia/rape/murder/armed robbery etc etc because the people who do it ain't gonna stop no matter what. Let's just give up and leave them to it? The present system doesn't work so just cave in because it's easier than trying to find solutions.
7: The vast majority of drugs addicts are also criminals who quite frankly are so desperate to get dosh for their next fix that they simply do not care where they get it from - strangers, family, friends, the man in the moon. Decriminalising drugs would only encourage them even more and would do society a massive disservice.
9: I wonder how many respondents on here have seen dead druggies at close quarters, or have any experience of the aftermath caused by the habit? Don't all shout at once.
Yes he would, Sandy.
Having an unlimited supply of drugs is not all he will need (or more importantly want) to conduct his lifestyle. He will, of course, be unable to work so will have limited funds, and will still live a haphazard and unstructured life (probably more so as he will have more drugs). So he will continue to steal.
Providing him (and tens of thousands like him) with all the drugs he needs is a recipe for disaster.
Having an unlimited supply of drugs is not all he will need (or more importantly want) to conduct his lifestyle. He will, of course, be unable to work so will have limited funds, and will still live a haphazard and unstructured life (probably more so as he will have more drugs). So he will continue to steal.
Providing him (and tens of thousands like him) with all the drugs he needs is a recipe for disaster.
Yes, Kerosene, couldn’t agree more.
I’ve had involvement with addicts (though not quite as much as you by the sounds of it) but I’ve also had dealings with their families and, most importantly, their victims. Anybody who believes that drug addicts will suddenly become paragons of virtue simply because they can get their stuff from Boots instead from the street corner is delusional. Their behaviour is not only caused by their need to acquire funds for drugs, it is caused by taking the stuff and the more they get down them the worse their behaviour will become.
So what will youngsters think of legalisation? What do they think of the drugs that are currently legal but dangerous? “Well they must be OK because the government says so”. So they’ll think that of Cannabis, Heroin, Cocaine, Ecstacy, etc.etc.
So that’ll be alright then.
I’ve had involvement with addicts (though not quite as much as you by the sounds of it) but I’ve also had dealings with their families and, most importantly, their victims. Anybody who believes that drug addicts will suddenly become paragons of virtue simply because they can get their stuff from Boots instead from the street corner is delusional. Their behaviour is not only caused by their need to acquire funds for drugs, it is caused by taking the stuff and the more they get down them the worse their behaviour will become.
So what will youngsters think of legalisation? What do they think of the drugs that are currently legal but dangerous? “Well they must be OK because the government says so”. So they’ll think that of Cannabis, Heroin, Cocaine, Ecstacy, etc.etc.
So that’ll be alright then.
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