Ramadan?

[anneasquith]

is today the beginning of Ramadan ? best wishes to all who will be participating,

[boxtops]

If you're diabetic then you would be excused. It's very clear - pregnant and menstruating women don't have to fast either, they can make it up some other time.

[jomifl]

It's not difficult to go without food for 16 hours unless you are a diabetic. I have done so many times without much if any distress. Drinking or not is another matter.

[237SJ]

Jomifl - it depends what you do for a living and what time of the year Ramadan falls on. This year, it has fallen in summer and that is very hard. If you do a physical job and you are trying to work in temperatures of 40 C that is hard.

[naomi24]

andy-hughes, //Allah is not in the business of making his followers suffer unduly - simply understand for a short time the suffering of others, and feel grattitude [sic] for what they have - a lesson the Christian (?) church might do well to think about.//

No, but he is (allegedly) in the business of making everyone else suffer unduly. Islam is no role model for anyone.

[beso]

find Ramadan amusing. The participants subject their bodies to dehydration and low blood sugar and assume that the resulting effects are something spritual.

A bit like the whirling dervishes who spin until they think they are having a divine experience.

Try this. Poke yourself in the eyes for a little while and believe you can see God in the patterns. It makes about as much sense.

[EDDIE51]

I lived and worked in Saudi for 3 Ramadans.
They change the working hours to help cope. In Ramadan we started work at 5am and finished at 12 midday to avoid the hottest part of the day .
As non Muslims we were exempt but we did not eat during that time and only drank water out of sight of any Muslims as a mark of respect.

[Octavius]

Many cultures have noted some form of spiritual/medicino benefit from fasting. Personally I get headaches and become ratty.

In the Gardnerian Book of Shadows, such enlightenment was also recognised as value from a fasting ritual. (presumably as opposed to flogging yourself with rusty knives on a rope).

http://www.sacred-texts.com/pag/gbos/gbos18.htm

[birdie1971]

EDDIE51 - “... I lived and worked in Saudi for 3 Ramadans.... we did not eat during that time and only drank water out of sight of any Muslims as a mark of respect...”

Respect for what? As any honest muslim will tell you, fasting at Ramadan is not compulsory for muslims; it is voluntary. Therefore non-muslims not eating and not drinking in front of someone who is on a voluntary daylight fasting regime is not showing respect to them - it is allowing themselves (through coercion) to be bent to the will of Islam.

As a corollary, when an inmate of a prison decides to go on hunger strike, there is no moral imperative for any other prisoner to not eat and drink in front of that person. The hunger-striker has made that choice voluntarily.

Respect doesn't come into it.

[FredPuli43]

birdie, I do not adopt Zionism or Judaism by wearing a koppel in Israel when not all Jews would do so. It is a matter of not offending people or, at least, acknowledging their culture. The best course must be to satisfy what is tradition or common. True, it may not be compulsory for Muslims to fast as described (is there a link?) but many do and it is a friendly or diplomatic gesture to follow their practice in their sight. They know that we are not Muslims but will think it pleasing , or not offensive.

Do you stand for foreign national anthems at sporting events? Yes? Then why? If no, do you think ill of those who do? Then why? We are talking of the same principle. It is sometimes called "manners"

[lightbulb247]

thank you.

[meglet]

Birdie, I'm currently in Riyadh and it's not just a respect thing. If we were caught eating, drinking or even smoking in public we would be arrested and deported. Although I'm pregnant so it doesn't apply to me. Not that I would test it here. It's a bit of a mare for Westerners during Ramadan -nothing is open during the day and the locals don't do a busting lot of work either.

[beso]

meglet reports the reality firsthand while the apologists continue to pretend that Islam is a religion of tolerance.

All the Abrahamic faiths are firmly rooted in fascism. Once it rose to the top of the pile, Christianity was exactly the same for almost its entire history.

Only when people of extraordinary courage stood up to promote secular values did humanity begin to see change.

Those of us who want to see governance of our world based on intelligence rather than superstition need to undermine religion at every opportunity.

[birdie1971]

FredPuli43 - “... Do you stand for foreign national anthems at sporting events? Yes? Then why? If no, do you think ill of those who do? Then why? We are talking of the same principle. It is sometimes called "manners" “

I would recommend reading Meglet's post [21:04 Fri 12th Jul 2013]. It's only called “manners” when it's truly voluntary. Otherwise it's coercion.

[birdie1971]

Meglet -

Thank you. The example you gave precisely demonstrates my point.

[birdie1971]

RobKep -

Probably. The lengths that people go to not 'offend' Islam is absurd. One only has to wonder why? Is it the fear of not displaying “good manners” as FredPuli43 suggests or is it something else entirely?

[mibn2cweus]

It is only by virtue of the virtues we possess that religion has any power to bestow upon us a sense of guilt, all while attempting to use those very same virtues they insist we lack as the only rope they have with which to hang us.

[naomi24]

RobKep, It wouldn’t surprise me if it’s for real – and if it is, it’s shameful. I’ll bet the teacher didn’t impose the restriction on herself.

[keyplus90]

////As any honest muslim will tell you, fasting at Ramadan is not compulsory for muslims; it is voluntary.////

Now that is really a good increase in my knowledge. But then again I might not be "honest" according to the poster.

[birdie1971]

↑ You should know by now Keyplus – I don't tell lies. And you're quite correct about your own dishonesty.