How much immigration can we take?

[Johnysid]

What is the maximum survivable rate of migration into the UK? According to the ONS 50% of our population growth is due to migration and 25% due to immediate offspring of migrants.
Global warming, global economic collapse or plague or war could compromise food and fertiliser imports and has done so once or twice a century. In constant good weather with access to modern farming and destruction of all natural habitats the UK could grow enough food for about 70 million. The ONS predicts we will have 70m population in 2035 at current rates of migration. So what is the maximum migration rate that should be permitted?

[VHG]

>>How much immigration can we take

We went past the limit years ago.

Mainly because our governments (labour and tory) have lost control of our borders and many people who come IN the country on temporary visas (students, entertainers etc) never leave.

And because we now have so many immigrant ghettos around the country it is very easy for illegal immigrants / failed asylum seekers to "hide" in these ghettos.

When we have a situation where cities like Birmingham and Leicester are fighting it out to see who can have a larger than 50% "immigrant" population we know we have major problems.

When we have a situation where a huge number of the babies born in this country are born to mothers who were not born here themselves then we know we have a problem.

This country is being dragged down to third world levels on a daily basis.

I live on the edge of Birmingham and areas like Sparkhill are now almost 100% Asian and driving through there is like driving through a city in India or Pakistan, it is awful.

This was one of the areas where the police identfied that about 30% of the population dont bother to insure their cars. And of course the police dont bother to do anything about it or they will be accused of racism.

So the rest of us (mostly) go on paying our car insurance, and 30% of the people in this area dont bother.

I hate to think what this country will be like in 100 years time, it does not bear thinking about.

[Johnysid]

VHG, much of the electorate wants the country to be like you describe or do not care about the same things as you do. In a democracy we have to put up with the views of the majority.

My concern is that current rates of immigration may lead to mass starvation and millions dying at some time during the next century. Most of the pro-immigration lobby will jump ship shortly before this happens (Canada, New Zealand etc) because they do not care about the land.

[jake-the-peg]

The fallicy in your argument is that Britain needs to grow all the food that it consumes.

It doesn't - we're not at war and a prolonged seige war like the mid stage of WWII is inconceivable with the way modern weaponry has evolved.

I also think you need to reconsider who "we" are.

For example my father was born in New York but came here at the age of 3 - so I guess I'm one of the children of immigrants you object to

My wife is Irish so I guess you object to my children on the same grounds.

Or are we included on racial grounds

This seems to be a thinly veiled racist rant

I think you give yourself away when talking about people jumping ship to Canada New Zealand etc.

Seems to me you're not bothered about immigrants what you're bothered about is non-white immigrants

[rojash]

These figures are posited on the assumption that people who are already in the UK will want to remain, and that people outside the UK will continue to want to immigrate.

Current government policies mitigate against such circumstances.

People generally tend to migrate towards economically successful countries, so countries like Germany and India, who's economies are growing while the UK's continues to decline, are pretty likely to take over as favoured destinations for economic migrants.

[Old_Geezer]

The nub of the problem is that there are too many humans trying to survive on the planet, and also too many trying to do so in this country. Has been for the whole of my life. No country has control over the whole world but it can consider the situation within its own borders.

We need to reduce the population and certainly not grow it further. This affects both indigenous population growth and immigration, both areas need to be tackled. There needs to be incentives to have two or fewer children, and to ensure immigration is less than or equal to emigration. None of this has anything to do with race, it is simple logic that follows from having accepted the population problem.

As for how much more can we take, it depends on how much larger you are willing to allow the associated problems to grow. One can tackle the issue earlier, or just allow things to get worse.

[Johnysid]

Jake the peg: "we're not at war and a prolonged seige war like the mid stage of WWII is inconceivable with the way modern weaponry has evolved." How can you know what the exact tactics of a future war might involve?

I suppose you also believe Global warming, global economic collapse etc. are also inconceivable and that it is highly responsible to populate a country beyond any possibility of feeding the people. Perhaps you also enjoy our ecological footprint being vastly greater than the available resources and want to see our countryside concreted over.

Jake the Peg: "This seems to be a thinly veiled racist rant "

HOW DARE YOU CALL ME A RACIST! I live in Croydon and live happily with people of all races. I am sick to death of such postmarxist game playing. You cannot just shout "racist!" when anyone challenges globalisation and points out the impossibility of endless economic and population growth .

[chaptazbru]

Well said johny - whenever anyone dares to mention the constant influx of immigrants into the country, the racist card is always played - makes me sick really.

[tonyav]

Same here chaptazbru, I'ts not about race it's about we have to many.

[chaptazbru]

Very true tony ...

[Johnysid]

JTP: "I think you give yourself away when talking about people jumping ship to Canada New Zealand etc. "

I was talking about the pro-immigration lobby going to these places when they have ruined this place. I could have included going back to the USA. Government Policy must be designed so that it is sustainable.

JTP: You have not answered the question, all you have done is insult its author. What do you think is the maximum migration rate into the UK? A million a year?

[jake-the-peg]

And why exactly did you then pick New Zealand and Canada

You also failed to answer my question as to whether you consider me and my children immigrants

You clearly have no concept of what you're talking about

You've been highly selective with your numbers and given none on population density

if you had you would have found we are the worlds 54th most densely populated country

http://en.wikipedia.o...by_population_density


Why am I not surprised you're from London

Another Londoner who thinks that the rest of the country is just like London.

Get out this weekend and go for a walk in oh say Lincolnshire - then come back and spout off about overpopulation

I'm sure Croyden is overpopulated

Croyden is NOT Britain

[emmie]

you should try living in the capital x

[TWR]

Jake, I think you are missing the point here, it was a decent question, there are hundreds within holding points waiting to see if they will be excepted, where are these people going to live / work?

[TWR]

Lincolnshire? do you mean the 2nd Poland?

[Johnysid]

Jake the Peg: Thanks for that link that shows that, apart from Island states such as Bermuda and places such as the Vatican and Monaco, the UK is in the same league as India and Japan for overpopulation: http://en.wikipedia.o...by_population_density Of large countries, we are in the top 12 alongside Bangladesh, Taiwan, South Korea, Rwanda, Netherlands, Japan, Philippines, Sri Lanka and Vietnam. England is in the top ten. Yes, we are massively overpopulated. See http://pol-check.blog...nd-hosepipe-bans.html for how much fresh water we have left. See http://pol-check.blog...of-globalization.html for an analysis of our ecological footprint.

You have continued to attack me personally with "you have no idea what you are talking about", a step forward from calling me a racist. But you still have not answered the question, what is the optimum migration rate into the UK?

[Johnysid]

I did not answer JTP's other question: "And why exactly did you then pick New Zealand and Canada ". I chose these because the pro-immigration lobby are PRO-immigration, things get bad and the intellectuals who propose more immigration will flee to a prosperous country that has survived global warming etc. They are pro-immigration and will live up to their principles.