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Solidarity With Gina Miller
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I don't agree with everything Mr Carr has to say but boy-oh-boy there are some spot on characterisations of certain AB individuals in here.
Do you believe his assertions that we're slipping into the mire via the more radical factions of the public to have a voice?
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Do you believe his assertions that we're slipping into the mire via the more radical factions of the public to have a voice?
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I'm sure this counter-argument to AB rhetoric will be treated respectfully.
But yes, it is sad to see the tone of debate in the last year or so. I say "debate", but Leave Voters seem convinced that the debate is over, which presumably explains why anyone who tries to persuade them otherwise is shot down so viciously.
But yes, it is sad to see the tone of debate in the last year or so. I say "debate", but Leave Voters seem convinced that the debate is over, which presumably explains why anyone who tries to persuade them otherwise is shot down so viciously.
That I article has a lot of spite from a Remainer about Brexiters.
There is spite on both sides but although I do not condone or in any way endorse threats, if you put your face and beliefs out in the open for all to see some will undoubtedly not agree with you.
It is the pathetic, spiteful name calling and threats that is the low point. Even the writer of the article uses that language so he is not innocent of even the charges he pushes outwards.
Remainers are allowed to have an opinion. They are not right and they are not wrong. What they are not allowed to do is stop by stealth what has been agreed by the people. If they are so right about any aspect of Brexit then they need to convince. Not bulldoze their opinion and try in any way possible to get their own way.
There is spite on both sides but although I do not condone or in any way endorse threats, if you put your face and beliefs out in the open for all to see some will undoubtedly not agree with you.
It is the pathetic, spiteful name calling and threats that is the low point. Even the writer of the article uses that language so he is not innocent of even the charges he pushes outwards.
Remainers are allowed to have an opinion. They are not right and they are not wrong. What they are not allowed to do is stop by stealth what has been agreed by the people. If they are so right about any aspect of Brexit then they need to convince. Not bulldoze their opinion and try in any way possible to get their own way.
"... because if there is one thing these ‘patriots’ absolutely can’t stand, it’s a woman who has the temerity to say things they don’t like or even to speak in public at all.
"Lily Allen, Diane Abbott and Mary Beard have all been targeted by these knuckle-dragging trolls"
I'd add Hilary Clinton to that list, if we really want to conflate "rise of Brexit" (a horrible term) with "rise of Trump".
Added to this state of affairs, which I agree is slightly overblown by the author perhaps, the "anti-PC paranoia" that suggests we are all being muzzled by a mythical "right-on" fascist police.
There was an article in the Irish Times recently be a journalist complaining about a tweet by some writer who had overheard two airline staff indulging in a "transphobic discussion". She had, from this casual tweet, concluded that the writer in question had thus embarked in a foul conspiracy to stifle free speech.
And the comments on the article all enthusuastically agreed.
"Lily Allen, Diane Abbott and Mary Beard have all been targeted by these knuckle-dragging trolls"
I'd add Hilary Clinton to that list, if we really want to conflate "rise of Brexit" (a horrible term) with "rise of Trump".
Added to this state of affairs, which I agree is slightly overblown by the author perhaps, the "anti-PC paranoia" that suggests we are all being muzzled by a mythical "right-on" fascist police.
There was an article in the Irish Times recently be a journalist complaining about a tweet by some writer who had overheard two airline staff indulging in a "transphobic discussion". She had, from this casual tweet, concluded that the writer in question had thus embarked in a foul conspiracy to stifle free speech.
And the comments on the article all enthusuastically agreed.
So I am not sure I would say we are "slipping into the mire" exactly, but there's no doubt that the EU referendum and its aftermath have exposed deep divisions in the UK which cut across other politcal divisions. If it is true that 61% of "leave" supporters don't care about the economic fall-out of leaving the EU, then it turns on its head the idea that people are promarily interested in their economic well-being first and foremost, except we know fine well that they ARE concerned about that: but there this issue is concerned there seems to be a sort of schizophrenia.
The article consists mostly of a load of round things that are usually found between the legs of male animals. For example:
“…the complete disregard for the millions of EU citizens whose lives have now been placed on hold”
There is (and never was) any possibility that those people from other EU nations living in the UK would be disadvantaged in any way by Brexit. They will continue to live here (should they wish) with all the rights that they have always had. Their lives are no more “on hold” than mine are. I am waiting patiently for the result of the referendum to be fully enacted and for the UK to assume (or rather resume) the status of a “normal” (i.e. non-EU) nation. Those who really think that Brexit is a disaster for them can readily relocate themselves elsewhere (which they had no difficulty doing when they first came to the UK). The alternative is for the UK to ignore the wishes of over half of its citizens in order to accommodate those of 3m assorted foreigners.
Ms Miller had no need to invoke the legal action she did. The Parliamentary vote that her action forced was carried by more than five to one and it was only the ineptitude of those calling the referendum that gave her the opportunity to launch her case. It’s unfortunate that various factions have set out to threaten and insult her. But she is not alone. People who stick their heads above the parapet (and even some that don't) are prone to have them shot at, especially with the opportunities available today. As they say in the army, if you can’t take a joke you should not have joined. If she thought that her actions would not have resulted in such reaction she has less sense than she’d like people to believe. She needs to resume the day job (whatever that was) she had before she saw the opportunity to derail the process which she once told us all “made her physically sick” (as anybody cared) and give up to role of the Remain Camp’s Drama-Queen-in-Chief.
“…the complete disregard for the millions of EU citizens whose lives have now been placed on hold”
There is (and never was) any possibility that those people from other EU nations living in the UK would be disadvantaged in any way by Brexit. They will continue to live here (should they wish) with all the rights that they have always had. Their lives are no more “on hold” than mine are. I am waiting patiently for the result of the referendum to be fully enacted and for the UK to assume (or rather resume) the status of a “normal” (i.e. non-EU) nation. Those who really think that Brexit is a disaster for them can readily relocate themselves elsewhere (which they had no difficulty doing when they first came to the UK). The alternative is for the UK to ignore the wishes of over half of its citizens in order to accommodate those of 3m assorted foreigners.
Ms Miller had no need to invoke the legal action she did. The Parliamentary vote that her action forced was carried by more than five to one and it was only the ineptitude of those calling the referendum that gave her the opportunity to launch her case. It’s unfortunate that various factions have set out to threaten and insult her. But she is not alone. People who stick their heads above the parapet (and even some that don't) are prone to have them shot at, especially with the opportunities available today. As they say in the army, if you can’t take a joke you should not have joined. If she thought that her actions would not have resulted in such reaction she has less sense than she’d like people to believe. She needs to resume the day job (whatever that was) she had before she saw the opportunity to derail the process which she once told us all “made her physically sick” (as anybody cared) and give up to role of the Remain Camp’s Drama-Queen-in-Chief.
“It would seem a tad more difficult than some imagined, Ron.”
No it’s not, Zacs. Breaking away cleanly is not particularly difficult. The problems arise when those doing the “negotiations” (which are largely unnecessary) try to retain the rights and privileges which should clearly be forfeited with our departure. It is right and proper that the EU should insist on either these privileges being lost or for some responsibilities (akin to those of EU membership) are continued in return. And that is not the definition of “leaving” at all.
No it’s not, Zacs. Breaking away cleanly is not particularly difficult. The problems arise when those doing the “negotiations” (which are largely unnecessary) try to retain the rights and privileges which should clearly be forfeited with our departure. It is right and proper that the EU should insist on either these privileges being lost or for some responsibilities (akin to those of EU membership) are continued in return. And that is not the definition of “leaving” at all.
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