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General Election: Theresa May Denies Social Care U-Turn
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But this new announcement by the Tories is at odds with what Mrs May and her Ministers have been saying for days.
But this new announcement by the Tories is at odds with what Mrs May and her Ministers have been saying for days.
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strong and stable, mikey! Stable as in "change my mind every few days". It's like the budget all over again.
17:26 Mon 22nd May 2017
Krom, she said there wouldn’t be a cap, now she says there will, but she hasn’t abandoned the plan. THAT would be a u-turn.
People – and the press, Mikey - need to get a grip. And there’s me thinking you lot would be pleased to see the wealthier pay, but I suppose that only applies when the people paying happen to be better off than you.
People – and the press, Mikey - need to get a grip. And there’s me thinking you lot would be pleased to see the wealthier pay, but I suppose that only applies when the people paying happen to be better off than you.
what needs to be defined is the point(s) of transition from family care to the NHS and I will call it NHS+ care. I am getting close to needing the social side - for example, we employ a carer for 3 hours a day, 6 days a week, and then I take care of the rest of the day (and night)....now in the immediate, if there were resources and/or money to allow proper breaks that would help but, more importantly, it's recognising when we amateurs need to pass over to the professionals....and then designing the resourcing and financing to allow this to happen. Okay, 'every case is individual' but I bet there's 80 to 90% commonality on this and then the marginal cases can be duly managed.
Help me out here. Was it a U-turn when she broke her party's keystone promise on VAT and NI?
Was it a U-turn when she campaigned for Brexit and then suddenly turned herself into an arch-Brexiteer as soon as it became advantageous?
Was it a U-turn when she held an election despite stating categorically that there would not be one until 2020?
Bear in mind each of these has taken place in less than 10 months. Could it be that perhaps our Glorious Leader (STRONGANDSTABLE) is not the most "consistent" of people?
Was it a U-turn when she campaigned for Brexit and then suddenly turned herself into an arch-Brexiteer as soon as it became advantageous?
Was it a U-turn when she held an election despite stating categorically that there would not be one until 2020?
Bear in mind each of these has taken place in less than 10 months. Could it be that perhaps our Glorious Leader (STRONGANDSTABLE) is not the most "consistent" of people?
Krom, possibly, but that is not what were discussing. Personally, I don't think it's such a bad thing for leaders to have the courage to change tack if that's the right thing to do. Jeremy Corbyn could learn a few lessons from her - but we're not discussing him either - and why would we? Heaven forbid that the disasters he has in mind for this country should ever overshadow the opportunity to put the AB leftist boot into something as mundane - and as beneficial to the populace - as this. ;o)
How are we not discussing May's consistency? Lol. The thread is abut whether she made a u-turn and then denied it.
I get what you're saying about flexibility (and although I prefer Corbyn to May, his rigid inflexibility is sometimes infuriating even to a supporter like me). But be fair - there's a world of difference between being intelligently flexible and hastily rewriting your manifesto in front of everyone and then insisting you haven't done it.
I get what you're saying about flexibility (and although I prefer Corbyn to May, his rigid inflexibility is sometimes infuriating even to a supporter like me). But be fair - there's a world of difference between being intelligently flexible and hastily rewriting your manifesto in front of everyone and then insisting you haven't done it.
I think it is disgraceful to expect we oldies to contribute to our own care. We have the right to expect the younger generations to fund it with their taxes and leave themselves bereft of the means to fund their own. And while they are doing it write them out of our wills and leave all the dosh to donkey sanctuaries. Lots of braying donkeys to look after donncha know.
naomi24
"Personally, I don't think it's such a bad thing for leaders to have the courage to change tack if that's the right thing to do."
The right thing to do, or political expediency?
Jeremy Hunt, the Health Secretary, explained on the morning of the manifesto launch why a cap is a bad idea:
[i]The reason we don’t think (the cap) is fair is because you could have a situation where someone who owns a house worth £1m, £2m, has expensive care costs of perhaps £100,000 or £200,000, and ends up under that proposal not having to pay those care costs because they are capped and those costs get borne by taxpayers.[i]
The Tory party election manifesto was launched four days ago.
The cap was wrong then and now all of a sudden it's right.
What on earth happened in those four days, apart from a mauling from the press, and those who would be adversely affected by it?
"Personally, I don't think it's such a bad thing for leaders to have the courage to change tack if that's the right thing to do."
The right thing to do, or political expediency?
Jeremy Hunt, the Health Secretary, explained on the morning of the manifesto launch why a cap is a bad idea:
[i]The reason we don’t think (the cap) is fair is because you could have a situation where someone who owns a house worth £1m, £2m, has expensive care costs of perhaps £100,000 or £200,000, and ends up under that proposal not having to pay those care costs because they are capped and those costs get borne by taxpayers.[i]
The Tory party election manifesto was launched four days ago.
The cap was wrong then and now all of a sudden it's right.
What on earth happened in those four days, apart from a mauling from the press, and those who would be adversely affected by it?
anneasquith at 21:59, if you can’t take it don’t keep giving it.
Krom, //How are we not discussing May's consistency? Lol.//
I didn’t say we’re not discussing her inconsistency. I agreed with you that she has possibly been inconsistent, but said that her past perceived inconsistencies are not what we’re discussing here. I trust that makes it clearer. How does it go? Oh yes. Errr… lol.
SP, //The right thing to do, or political expediency?//
Both. Is it right or is it wrong? That, it seems, depends on where you’re coming from and who you want to disparage Reading the posts here I can only conclude that the people who are howling think it’s wrong because everyone whose estate is worth in excess of £100,000 should have the whole of their care costs deducted. I’m thinking there could be a fair few who will be calling the estate agents in and looking to downsize pronto. I hope they enjoy spending the rest.
//those who would be adversely affected by it?//
Who would they be?
Krom, //How are we not discussing May's consistency? Lol.//
I didn’t say we’re not discussing her inconsistency. I agreed with you that she has possibly been inconsistent, but said that her past perceived inconsistencies are not what we’re discussing here. I trust that makes it clearer. How does it go? Oh yes. Errr… lol.
SP, //The right thing to do, or political expediency?//
Both. Is it right or is it wrong? That, it seems, depends on where you’re coming from and who you want to disparage Reading the posts here I can only conclude that the people who are howling think it’s wrong because everyone whose estate is worth in excess of £100,000 should have the whole of their care costs deducted. I’m thinking there could be a fair few who will be calling the estate agents in and looking to downsize pronto. I hope they enjoy spending the rest.
//those who would be adversely affected by it?//
Who would they be?
I think it is disgraceful to expect present earners in society to pay sufficient tax to cover society's bills the same way we oldies did. They have the right to expect to call, "Foul", and, "Poor little me" rather than play their part; and to moan if they have to wait, and have to save up for the things they want, as all before them did. And it's so unfair that they will know, if they think of it, that when they need help, having convinced all that the were the generation that didn't need to chip in when they were younger, that they won't be happy to see others complaining about them needing help in their turn.
Some just don't get it.
Some just don't get it.
//I think it is disgraceful to expect present earners in society to pay sufficient tax to cover society's bills the same way we oldies did. //
Sums not your strong point, OG? They would have to pay far more than we every paid if they are to cover society's bills because society's bills have risen so much. They are already struggling to pay mortgages because they have to pay a far greater percentage of their pay towards securing a home. That's because the oldies made a fortune on their homes at the expense of the youngsters, now there's an idea...
Sums not your strong point, OG? They would have to pay far more than we every paid if they are to cover society's bills because society's bills have risen so much. They are already struggling to pay mortgages because they have to pay a far greater percentage of their pay towards securing a home. That's because the oldies made a fortune on their homes at the expense of the youngsters, now there's an idea...
/hey are already struggling to pay mortgages because they have to pay a far greater percentage//
Around 17% in the 80's around shop around and it's as little as 1%.
The problem with taking peoples capital to pay for social care is that it rewards the workshy and feckless. I suspect, aas Naomi points out above, we shall see an increase in downsizing over the next 10-20 years as people realize that saving just means the Government will take it one way or another so may as well spend it. Suspect we will also see an increase in those lifetime mortgages for the over 55's that are currently being peddled. They might not be good value but certainly better value than the grasping Government.
Around 17% in the 80's around shop around and it's as little as 1%.
The problem with taking peoples capital to pay for social care is that it rewards the workshy and feckless. I suspect, aas Naomi points out above, we shall see an increase in downsizing over the next 10-20 years as people realize that saving just means the Government will take it one way or another so may as well spend it. Suspect we will also see an increase in those lifetime mortgages for the over 55's that are currently being peddled. They might not be good value but certainly better value than the grasping Government.
On the contrary, I reckon I'm pretty good at maths. Population is greater now as are the number of employed even if a portion are those forced to continue having been denied State pension when they were told it would start. Plus income tax isn't the only tax. And ultimately the costs of society have to be met by society not pushed on a group unable to fight back, anyway. Trying to get out of one's responsibilities ought not be a considered option.
And money from having foresight to invest is fair enough, and shpuld not be penalised. Plus as it stands it is an affront to the claim that we have a free healthcare industry while a particular group of individuals are singled out for abandonment of that claim and told they had to pay while others who didn't care and spent spent spent get the benefit denied others.
This idea that it was ok for all that have gone before but today's contributors to the public purse are hard done by is nonsense. We've all lived through economic good and bad times. We made the best of it.
And money from having foresight to invest is fair enough, and shpuld not be penalised. Plus as it stands it is an affront to the claim that we have a free healthcare industry while a particular group of individuals are singled out for abandonment of that claim and told they had to pay while others who didn't care and spent spent spent get the benefit denied others.
This idea that it was ok for all that have gone before but today's contributors to the public purse are hard done by is nonsense. We've all lived through economic good and bad times. We made the best of it.
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