News26 mins ago
Surely In A Democracy
We are allowed to criticise the establishment? In fact even show the establishment up for a lie they have given out as a truth?
If not we will be no better than North Korea where the Dear Leader has to be revered as a living God that can do no wrong.
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Just another reason some in the Labour Party are living in a bubble.
An idea I had was that the rally's and hustings taking place with the Labour leadership (in fact all political caampaigning perhaps) shouldn't be in front of an adoring frenzied crowd of your supporters but in those undecideds and those that don't think you or your policies are right. That would show them how the others really think and will show their debating powers!!
If not we will be no better than North Korea where the Dear Leader has to be revered as a living God that can do no wrong.
http://
Just another reason some in the Labour Party are living in a bubble.
An idea I had was that the rally's and hustings taking place with the Labour leadership (in fact all political caampaigning perhaps) shouldn't be in front of an adoring frenzied crowd of your supporters but in those undecideds and those that don't think you or your policies are right. That would show them how the others really think and will show their debating powers!!
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Gromit, so you reckon that Branson and Virgin, knowing that the train was ram-packed, claimed that it wasn't and then published pictures showing that it was, contradicting their own claim?
And that Corbyn happened to catch a ram-packed off-peak train at the very instant he wanted to film one.
That all seems very unlikely, and the CCTV evidence does not back it up.
This is what one could reasonably call a "ram-packed" train and I have been on many journeys like this, both before and after nationalisation:
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This is what one might unreasonably insist was a ram-packed train:
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It's well known there's a problem with the railways. That doesn't mean that Corbyn isn't a liar, or for that matter that renationalisation will fix the problem.
And that Corbyn happened to catch a ram-packed off-peak train at the very instant he wanted to film one.
That all seems very unlikely, and the CCTV evidence does not back it up.
This is what one could reasonably call a "ram-packed" train and I have been on many journeys like this, both before and after nationalisation:
http://
This is what one might unreasonably insist was a ram-packed train:
http://
It's well known there's a problem with the railways. That doesn't mean that Corbyn isn't a liar, or for that matter that renationalisation will fix the problem.
Ellipsis,
Elipsis,
1. First of all, I am totally against Nationalisation of the railways, and I think that Corbyn is wrong on the issue.
2. The journey from London to Newcastle is more than 3 hours. Corbyn did not claim it was rammed from start to finish, he claimed it was rammed early in the journey. Virgin produced CCTV captures later in the journey of Corbyn sat down, but that does not disproved there were no available seats at the offset of his journey.
3. The available evidence suggests that for a time (probably early in the journey) there were people stood up, or sitting on the floor, because there was no where to sit.
4. At the time, Branson was on Necker Island, busily falling off his bicycle, so his evidence is second, third hand.
5. None of that is a reason to strip Nranson of his Knighthood.
Elipsis,
1. First of all, I am totally against Nationalisation of the railways, and I think that Corbyn is wrong on the issue.
2. The journey from London to Newcastle is more than 3 hours. Corbyn did not claim it was rammed from start to finish, he claimed it was rammed early in the journey. Virgin produced CCTV captures later in the journey of Corbyn sat down, but that does not disproved there were no available seats at the offset of his journey.
3. The available evidence suggests that for a time (probably early in the journey) there were people stood up, or sitting on the floor, because there was no where to sit.
4. At the time, Branson was on Necker Island, busily falling off his bicycle, so his evidence is second, third hand.
5. None of that is a reason to strip Nranson of his Knighthood.
You can read what you like into it Gromit.
What I see is at 11:07, seven minutes after departure, Corbyn is walking past empty unreserved seats. Maybe he should have reserved some seats for himself. It's free to do so.
Re your point three above, people do not necessarily stand up or sit on the floor because there is nowhere to sit. I've been on many trains where people have stood up or sat on the floor when there have been plenty of places to sit. Do you actually travel on trains much Gromit? ... because the arguments you make seem based on assumptions rather than actual experience.
This discussion comes down to the definition of "ram-packed". I know the image that puts in my mind of a train carriage, having been in many ram-packed carriages myself, and I know that image is not matched by the CCTV footage released by Virgin of early in that journey.
What I see is at 11:07, seven minutes after departure, Corbyn is walking past empty unreserved seats. Maybe he should have reserved some seats for himself. It's free to do so.
Re your point three above, people do not necessarily stand up or sit on the floor because there is nowhere to sit. I've been on many trains where people have stood up or sat on the floor when there have been plenty of places to sit. Do you actually travel on trains much Gromit? ... because the arguments you make seem based on assumptions rather than actual experience.
This discussion comes down to the definition of "ram-packed". I know the image that puts in my mind of a train carriage, having been in many ram-packed carriages myself, and I know that image is not matched by the CCTV footage released by Virgin of early in that journey.
Ellipsis,
I travel on trains all the time, I do not own a car.
Passengers do walk past reserved seats when they get on a train because they want a free seat. If they sit in a reserved seat then have to move when that passenger gets on, they are less likely to find an unreserved seat. Only when you do not find an unreserved seat do you start looking where the reserved seats are reserved from.
Corbyn says he could not find two empty seats together for him and his wife, so they sat together on the floor. When a family upgraded to first class, the Train Manager informed Corbyn and they went to those seats, 42 minutes into the journey. All of that seems to be consistant with the known facts.
Releasing the CCTV of Corbyn is against Virgin's own privacy policy.
I travel on trains all the time, I do not own a car.
Passengers do walk past reserved seats when they get on a train because they want a free seat. If they sit in a reserved seat then have to move when that passenger gets on, they are less likely to find an unreserved seat. Only when you do not find an unreserved seat do you start looking where the reserved seats are reserved from.
Corbyn says he could not find two empty seats together for him and his wife, so they sat together on the floor. When a family upgraded to first class, the Train Manager informed Corbyn and they went to those seats, 42 minutes into the journey. All of that seems to be consistant with the known facts.
Releasing the CCTV of Corbyn is against Virgin's own privacy policy.
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