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Judas - Bad Press According To Church Figures
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Does he 'hold an important mirror to our own human condition'?
Would Jesus have forgiven him?
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Would Jesus have forgiven him?
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goodlife [G] - "I do answer questions..."
Very rarely. Mostly you avoid and ignore them.
G - "... I quote the scriptures because at the end of the day that's where lifes answers are found..."
No, you quote scriptures in order to avoid answering the questions put to you. You use Biblical scriptures as a deflection. You routinely quote scriptures that are entirely unassociated with or are only tangentially associated with the questions put to you. You do this in order to obfuscate the issue and to avoid subjects you are not happy discussing.
G - "... If you don't wish to read them, then that's your own choice and therefore you wont get the answers to the question."
This quote is demonstrative of your inability and/or unwillingness to engage in meaningful conversation. You are saying that if I do not read the biblical references you routinely refer others to then you will not answer questions. Your attitude is remarkably similar to Keyplus' - he has also stated that if only people would read for themselves the holy scriptures then they too will see the "truth". Both you and he seem incapable of reconciling the fact that many atheists have read the Bible, Koran and Torah and have found them to be simply unbelievable. In fact, an intimate knowledge of the scriptures is what have lead many of us to become atheists.
G - "... And that's why your an atheist. Simple."
I am an atheist because I am a logical thinker and one who is capable of following an argument to its rational conclusion. Judaism, Christianity, Islam - not one of them is logical. Each and every one contains illogical tales and irreconcilable contradictions. Scriptural scholars spend entire lifetimes trying to explain the multitudinous contradictions contained in each and yet they always fail. Why? Because each and every one of the holy books is an invented fantasy; created by humans in order to make people feel better about themselves.
Very rarely. Mostly you avoid and ignore them.
G - "... I quote the scriptures because at the end of the day that's where lifes answers are found..."
No, you quote scriptures in order to avoid answering the questions put to you. You use Biblical scriptures as a deflection. You routinely quote scriptures that are entirely unassociated with or are only tangentially associated with the questions put to you. You do this in order to obfuscate the issue and to avoid subjects you are not happy discussing.
G - "... If you don't wish to read them, then that's your own choice and therefore you wont get the answers to the question."
This quote is demonstrative of your inability and/or unwillingness to engage in meaningful conversation. You are saying that if I do not read the biblical references you routinely refer others to then you will not answer questions. Your attitude is remarkably similar to Keyplus' - he has also stated that if only people would read for themselves the holy scriptures then they too will see the "truth". Both you and he seem incapable of reconciling the fact that many atheists have read the Bible, Koran and Torah and have found them to be simply unbelievable. In fact, an intimate knowledge of the scriptures is what have lead many of us to become atheists.
G - "... And that's why your an atheist. Simple."
I am an atheist because I am a logical thinker and one who is capable of following an argument to its rational conclusion. Judaism, Christianity, Islam - not one of them is logical. Each and every one contains illogical tales and irreconcilable contradictions. Scriptural scholars spend entire lifetimes trying to explain the multitudinous contradictions contained in each and yet they always fail. Why? Because each and every one of the holy books is an invented fantasy; created by humans in order to make people feel better about themselves.
I'm going to be watching this:
Judas not ‘pantomime villain’ we think, says TV Gogglebox vicar
On Good Friday, Revd Kate Bottley, the Anglican vicar who stars in Gogglebox, will present an hour-long documentary on BBC 1 entitled In the Footsteps of Judas.
She travels to Jerusalem and discovers that Judas betrayal was more complex than we might think. ‘It wasn't OK, but the black and white narrative of pinning him as the bad guy – that's a little bit too easy,’ says Kate.
Think this should be a very interesting programme. Like looking at things from different angles.
Judas not ‘pantomime villain’ we think, says TV Gogglebox vicar
On Good Friday, Revd Kate Bottley, the Anglican vicar who stars in Gogglebox, will present an hour-long documentary on BBC 1 entitled In the Footsteps of Judas.
She travels to Jerusalem and discovers that Judas betrayal was more complex than we might think. ‘It wasn't OK, but the black and white narrative of pinning him as the bad guy – that's a little bit too easy,’ says Kate.
Think this should be a very interesting programme. Like looking at things from different angles.
Oops, apologies folks, should have read agchristie's post correctly before blundering in and repeating what she posted. Having said that, in answer to canary's question I quote
Ecclesiastes 3:2 There is an appointed time for everything. And there is a time for every event under heaven-- A time to give birth and a time to die; A time to plant and a time to uproot what is planted.
So, plant your seed tatties at the appointed time ha ha
Ecclesiastes 3:2 There is an appointed time for everything. And there is a time for every event under heaven-- A time to give birth and a time to die; A time to plant and a time to uproot what is planted.
So, plant your seed tatties at the appointed time ha ha
@agchristie
//Does he 'hold an important mirror to our own human condition'? //
For some reason, I am unable to process this question properly because the customary context for its use is when it is about an artist, "holding a mirror to reality", or "reflecting on the human condition". You shouldn't have to put it into different words but it would help me, greatly.
//Would Jesus have forgiven him? //
I thought he did forgive him? More than that, he all but ordered him to "do what must be done" (or equivalent). Chosen for the task, not merely the person who was standing close by when the task came to mind.
The ultimate in "taking one for the team" dirty jobs.
It is peculiar though. God could have terminated his earthly presence at any time, by any means and achieved the whole sin-redemption end-goal but, as atalanta said, that would mean no cross and, if it was a particularly destructive form of death, resurrection might have been an awkward business.
So why drag Judas, the disapproving senior clerics, Pilate and sundry Romans into this whole theatrical denoument? Man must betray Jesus and carry out his execution? Why?
Okay, I realise that the Resurrection doesn't convince unless we have a definitive death, in front of many witnesses (under dramatic skies etc.) and the suffering is important so it has to be crucifixion, not decapitation.
One Gaulish rebel leader was, famously, taken to Rome, imprisoned for some time, then paraded through the streets before being ritually garotted. Strange how Jesus (rebel leader) wasn't subject to this traditional punishment.
//Does he 'hold an important mirror to our own human condition'? //
For some reason, I am unable to process this question properly because the customary context for its use is when it is about an artist, "holding a mirror to reality", or "reflecting on the human condition". You shouldn't have to put it into different words but it would help me, greatly.
//Would Jesus have forgiven him? //
I thought he did forgive him? More than that, he all but ordered him to "do what must be done" (or equivalent). Chosen for the task, not merely the person who was standing close by when the task came to mind.
The ultimate in "taking one for the team" dirty jobs.
It is peculiar though. God could have terminated his earthly presence at any time, by any means and achieved the whole sin-redemption end-goal but, as atalanta said, that would mean no cross and, if it was a particularly destructive form of death, resurrection might have been an awkward business.
So why drag Judas, the disapproving senior clerics, Pilate and sundry Romans into this whole theatrical denoument? Man must betray Jesus and carry out his execution? Why?
Okay, I realise that the Resurrection doesn't convince unless we have a definitive death, in front of many witnesses (under dramatic skies etc.) and the suffering is important so it has to be crucifixion, not decapitation.
One Gaulish rebel leader was, famously, taken to Rome, imprisoned for some time, then paraded through the streets before being ritually garotted. Strange how Jesus (rebel leader) wasn't subject to this traditional punishment.
@agchristie
It is interesting to note that, in the artworks, Jesus and the other 11 disciples are portrayed with pale, western European features whereas Judas is depicted in a way that we might recognise today as an anti-Semitic parody.
Twelve is a nice, round, number and I wonder if Judas was an afterthought, added on by early Christians to focus their hate on Jews who were still resistant to conversion. They blamed Jews, in general, for Jesus's death (forgetting that it was essential to the story) and personified them in a new character: Judas. Even the name seems intended to resonate with their collective name.
Was it once a common forename? Only archaeology can tell us that. The Bible is remarkably sparing with character names (one use each, unless someone knows differently) and I was thinking of posting a question about that very aspect. Slightly tangential, here?
It is interesting to note that, in the artworks, Jesus and the other 11 disciples are portrayed with pale, western European features whereas Judas is depicted in a way that we might recognise today as an anti-Semitic parody.
Twelve is a nice, round, number and I wonder if Judas was an afterthought, added on by early Christians to focus their hate on Jews who were still resistant to conversion. They blamed Jews, in general, for Jesus's death (forgetting that it was essential to the story) and personified them in a new character: Judas. Even the name seems intended to resonate with their collective name.
Was it once a common forename? Only archaeology can tell us that. The Bible is remarkably sparing with character names (one use each, unless someone knows differently) and I was thinking of posting a question about that very aspect. Slightly tangential, here?
@Zacs-master
Had to look him up on Wiki.
"Patronage
alcoholics; carpenters; {2 US cities} ; smallpox; tailors; hope; perseverance"
How they got from the Hebrew "Mattityahu" to the Greek Ματθιος is a puzzle as the second t-sound vanishes in the remix.
If they were that free and easy about mangling character names, how many other words got fudged in conversion from Hebrew? I wonder if Torah scholars have ever cast an eye over the King James version and spotted any significant twists of translation?
p.s. Three versions of how and where he died. Clever chap!
Had to look him up on Wiki.
"Patronage
alcoholics; carpenters; {2 US cities} ; smallpox; tailors; hope; perseverance"
How they got from the Hebrew "Mattityahu" to the Greek Ματθιος is a puzzle as the second t-sound vanishes in the remix.
If they were that free and easy about mangling character names, how many other words got fudged in conversion from Hebrew? I wonder if Torah scholars have ever cast an eye over the King James version and spotted any significant twists of translation?
p.s. Three versions of how and where he died. Clever chap!
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