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Why Are The Leavers So Scared?
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Why are the Leavers so frightened of a second referendum ? It can't be the cost, which is trivial considering the Brexit expenditure over the last 3 years. And surely given the appalling intransigence shown by the EU, and their anti-British attitudes during the last 2½ years, this would turn even more people against them. So logically, a second referendum should return a stronger Leave majority. So there's nothing for the Leavers to object to.
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The problem with a second referendum is that the options wouldn't be the same as the first. The new choices suggested by a politician yesterday (can't remember who) were:
"Accept Mrs May's deal".
"Remain in the EU".
No mention of ‘Leave without a deal’.
I agree with Maggiebee. We are the laughing stock of Europe - and possibly the world. Whoever thinks it's acceptable to capitulate to the will of bully boys like Mr Juncker, who has promised that the EU will make it as difficult as possible for this country to leave, needs their bumps felt!
"Accept Mrs May's deal".
"Remain in the EU".
No mention of ‘Leave without a deal’.
I agree with Maggiebee. We are the laughing stock of Europe - and possibly the world. Whoever thinks it's acceptable to capitulate to the will of bully boys like Mr Juncker, who has promised that the EU will make it as difficult as possible for this country to leave, needs their bumps felt!
As above. It's not a matter of being "scared" and I too believe a second referendum (with the same question) would result in an even bigger "Leave" majority.
My objection is twofold:
1. The country has been asked once and their wishes were said to have been respected. Since the referendum a new Parliament was elected and 80% of those voted in stood on a pledge to take the UK out of the UK. The new Parliament voted by at least five to one to implement Brexit (with no caveats attached) and passed the appropriate legislation. The country has a right to expect that undertaking to be met. Asking the country to vote again, even with an identical question, is simply ridiculous and is only being suggested because Parliament is unable to agree on a way forward. It has all got too tricky for them to handle and this is because, throughout, MPs' hearts were never in the task before them. Most (and in particular the Prime Minister) saw it as a damage limitation exercise to be concluded with as little disruption as possible, with little or no vision of the long game.
2. Any second referendum will not be a simple "Remain/Leave" question. It is touted that since Parliament is unable to agree on a way to extract us from the EU the people will be asked to make up their minds for them OR choose to remain. That is clearly unjust as the decision to leave has been taken, endorsed by Parliament and nothing has changed since that decision was made (apart from the publication of a hopelessly unacceptable agreement which MPs should have known all along would be the result of the government's "negotiations).
My objection is twofold:
1. The country has been asked once and their wishes were said to have been respected. Since the referendum a new Parliament was elected and 80% of those voted in stood on a pledge to take the UK out of the UK. The new Parliament voted by at least five to one to implement Brexit (with no caveats attached) and passed the appropriate legislation. The country has a right to expect that undertaking to be met. Asking the country to vote again, even with an identical question, is simply ridiculous and is only being suggested because Parliament is unable to agree on a way forward. It has all got too tricky for them to handle and this is because, throughout, MPs' hearts were never in the task before them. Most (and in particular the Prime Minister) saw it as a damage limitation exercise to be concluded with as little disruption as possible, with little or no vision of the long game.
2. Any second referendum will not be a simple "Remain/Leave" question. It is touted that since Parliament is unable to agree on a way to extract us from the EU the people will be asked to make up their minds for them OR choose to remain. That is clearly unjust as the decision to leave has been taken, endorsed by Parliament and nothing has changed since that decision was made (apart from the publication of a hopelessly unacceptable agreement which MPs should have known all along would be the result of the government's "negotiations).
Not frightened in the least, just bloody angry that we had a referendum, the result of which was to leave and here we are all this time on still TRYING to leave. It shouldn't be up to the MP's who are trying to keep us in because they wanted 'remain', the public were asked and the public spoke. It seems the referendum was a pointless exercise, but it shouldn't be, the majority want to leave, so we should leave. Sick to death of all the arguments about this. No wonder we are a damn laughing stock !!!
And how, exactly, will a second referendum break the deadlock?
Let's suppose for simplicity's sake that the question is identical to the first: In or Out?
55% in 45% Out. Happy Remainers. Withdraw Article 50, apologise to the Commission for all the trouible we've caused and carry on "as normal" watching the EU continue to promote its federal project, revising the rules to prevent any future secession and constructing new devices to punish the UK for its chutzpah.
55% Out 45% In. Not a single Remain MP (nor a single remain poster on this site, for that matter) will have changed his mind. They and all the powerful Remain interest groups know that Leave is a disaster and will continue their efforts with all the old and, presumably, some new, devices to thwart the will of the 55% stupids and subvert the result of Referendum 2.
I'd put good money on the fact that every single Remainer on this site would back the subverters to the hilt (knife analogy there) because the purpose of Referendum 2 is not to decide the issue "finally", but to stop Brexit.
Let's suppose for simplicity's sake that the question is identical to the first: In or Out?
55% in 45% Out. Happy Remainers. Withdraw Article 50, apologise to the Commission for all the trouible we've caused and carry on "as normal" watching the EU continue to promote its federal project, revising the rules to prevent any future secession and constructing new devices to punish the UK for its chutzpah.
55% Out 45% In. Not a single Remain MP (nor a single remain poster on this site, for that matter) will have changed his mind. They and all the powerful Remain interest groups know that Leave is a disaster and will continue their efforts with all the old and, presumably, some new, devices to thwart the will of the 55% stupids and subvert the result of Referendum 2.
I'd put good money on the fact that every single Remainer on this site would back the subverters to the hilt (knife analogy there) because the purpose of Referendum 2 is not to decide the issue "finally", but to stop Brexit.
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