The K M Links Game - June 2024 Week 2
Quizzes & Puzzles36 mins ago
Do Christians And Muslims Worship The Same God.
186 Answers
Hi There I saw a post on facebook that said Muslims and Christians do not worship the same God. And I copied it on to my wall. Anyway one of my really pc friends said that is not true and it is hate crime to say that and if it is not removed she will phone the police. But surely that is true. Muslims worship Allah where as Christians worship God?
Answers
Not being a user of Facebook I thought gordie had put the message up in his living room. (copied it on to my wall)
09:59 Wed 23rd Dec 2015
Khandro, do you not think that perhaps your categorisation of ABers using your own personal scale of atheism smacks a little of arrogance? Still it is cheering to know that you do credit some atheists with the possession of intelligence despite their lack of 'spirituality' which sadly seems to be the gift of only a chosen few.
Khandro - "... 1. There is no God. (Stubborn, bovine)..."
Stubborn. Yes. Guilty as charged Sir. You see, I require evidence before I will believe something. It doesn't matter what it is, I demand to see the evidence. Since religion claims the most lofty of things imaginable - endless life in the presence of a supreme creator deity - I think it's only fair that one demands to see the evidence for such an astonishing, monumental, life-changing claim. As no religious book can or does provide *any* evidence for such a claim, I see no reason to believe in them.
Now to your "bovine" appellation/insult. Oh dear me. Bovine, as you well know, means, "looking or acting like a cow". As you are aware, we have never met. But I assure you, I do not resemble a cow. Nor do I act like one in that I don't eat grass, poo in public nor follow a herd. Interesting that you use the example of a herding animal to describe atheists. I would have thought that atheists were the very antithesis of a herding animal since they (more often than not) think and act for themselves and often don't conform to the pressures put upon them by the religious 'herds'. You should think about that before accusing others of being 'bovine'. Projection perhaps?
You continue, "... [birdie] is let down by his relishing the words of Sam Harris, a self-appointed "philosopher" with a PhD in neurology, a field in which he is not at all distinguished..."
Ahh. The old ad-hominem eh? So you don't like Sam Harris? Hardly surprising. Funnily enough, I'm not too keen on him either. I have read a couple of his books and I've not been too impressed. However, you seem to have fallen into the trap of arguing that a person's statement is invalid and has no merit based upon their qualifications and/or your personal dislike of that person. To state such a thing makes you look rather foolish. If you disagree with Sam Harris, be so bold as to quote him directly and then demolish his arguments. That is how intelligent discourse is conducted. Simply attacking the man because he has taken drugs, publishes books that you personally disagree with and gives talks in, "...a field in which he is not at all distinguished..." cheapens you as debater.
In short Khandro, you've done yourself no favours with this line of argument.
Stubborn. Yes. Guilty as charged Sir. You see, I require evidence before I will believe something. It doesn't matter what it is, I demand to see the evidence. Since religion claims the most lofty of things imaginable - endless life in the presence of a supreme creator deity - I think it's only fair that one demands to see the evidence for such an astonishing, monumental, life-changing claim. As no religious book can or does provide *any* evidence for such a claim, I see no reason to believe in them.
Now to your "bovine" appellation/insult. Oh dear me. Bovine, as you well know, means, "looking or acting like a cow". As you are aware, we have never met. But I assure you, I do not resemble a cow. Nor do I act like one in that I don't eat grass, poo in public nor follow a herd. Interesting that you use the example of a herding animal to describe atheists. I would have thought that atheists were the very antithesis of a herding animal since they (more often than not) think and act for themselves and often don't conform to the pressures put upon them by the religious 'herds'. You should think about that before accusing others of being 'bovine'. Projection perhaps?
You continue, "... [birdie] is let down by his relishing the words of Sam Harris, a self-appointed "philosopher" with a PhD in neurology, a field in which he is not at all distinguished..."
Ahh. The old ad-hominem eh? So you don't like Sam Harris? Hardly surprising. Funnily enough, I'm not too keen on him either. I have read a couple of his books and I've not been too impressed. However, you seem to have fallen into the trap of arguing that a person's statement is invalid and has no merit based upon their qualifications and/or your personal dislike of that person. To state such a thing makes you look rather foolish. If you disagree with Sam Harris, be so bold as to quote him directly and then demolish his arguments. That is how intelligent discourse is conducted. Simply attacking the man because he has taken drugs, publishes books that you personally disagree with and gives talks in, "...a field in which he is not at all distinguished..." cheapens you as debater.
In short Khandro, you've done yourself no favours with this line of argument.
Khandro, I don't find myself in any category, justly or unjustly.
The use of the word 'belief' in relation to god speaks volumes. It is a word usually applied to concepts or things that have not been proven to exist. So at the very heart of religious 'belief' is the tacit admission that god does not exist other than as a concept in the human brain.
The use of the word 'belief' in relation to god speaks volumes. It is a word usually applied to concepts or things that have not been proven to exist. So at the very heart of religious 'belief' is the tacit admission that god does not exist other than as a concept in the human brain.
Birdie; to deal with your penultimate post first, you are wrong to say that no one died as a direct result of Stalin being an atheist, vast numbers did. Russia and what became the USSR was populated by many devout orthodox Christians, Jews and other religions. When religion was outlawed those who protested and resisted were either killed or perished in the Gulag. A similar fate befell religious dissidents in China and Korea. The slaughter of thousands of monks and civil population of Tibet by the atheist Chinese regime just because they upheld Buddhism is too painful to relate.
So in the name of all those who died in these circumstances, please study history a little before you make such pronouncements and twist facts in an attempt to prove your specious argument.
So in the name of all those who died in these circumstances, please study history a little before you make such pronouncements and twist facts in an attempt to prove your specious argument.
jomifl; Sorry, but you are wrong too;
"Marxist–Leninist Atheism has consistently advocated the control, suppression, and elimination of religion. Within about a year of the revolution, the state expropriated all church property, including the churches themselves, and in the period from 1922 to 1926, 28 Russian Orthodox bishops and more than 1,200 priests were killed. Many more were persecuted."
Those figures are just for the clergy and doesn't include the masses of lay people who were deported to the gulag for resisting.
"Christians belonged to various churches: Orthodox (which had the largest number of followers), Catholic, and Baptist and various other Protestant denominations. The majority of the Muslims in the Soviet Union were Sunni. Judaism also had many followers. Other religions, practiced by a small number of believers, included Buddhism and Shamanism."
Source; Wikipedia.
I think you ought to simply accept the plain fact that followers of various religions were murdered by atheists trying to enforce atheism on them. There are other examples, one of which -Tibet- I have already mentioned.
"Marxist–Leninist Atheism has consistently advocated the control, suppression, and elimination of religion. Within about a year of the revolution, the state expropriated all church property, including the churches themselves, and in the period from 1922 to 1926, 28 Russian Orthodox bishops and more than 1,200 priests were killed. Many more were persecuted."
Those figures are just for the clergy and doesn't include the masses of lay people who were deported to the gulag for resisting.
"Christians belonged to various churches: Orthodox (which had the largest number of followers), Catholic, and Baptist and various other Protestant denominations. The majority of the Muslims in the Soviet Union were Sunni. Judaism also had many followers. Other religions, practiced by a small number of believers, included Buddhism and Shamanism."
Source; Wikipedia.
I think you ought to simply accept the plain fact that followers of various religions were murdered by atheists trying to enforce atheism on them. There are other examples, one of which -Tibet- I have already mentioned.
Not WIKI Khandro? but you have always denigrated wiki when I quoted it to support MY arguments.
By the way you are completely wrong, The communist dictators just happened to be atheists.
There is no atheist theology that requires the destruction of religion..In fact there is atheist dogma of any kind..but I guess you will never grasp that concept.
By the way you are completely wrong, The communist dictators just happened to be atheists.
There is no atheist theology that requires the destruction of religion..In fact there is atheist dogma of any kind..but I guess you will never grasp that concept.
Atheism is simply a lack of belief in a god. That is all, there is no instruction book, there are no associated compulsions to hate or kill believers*. If an atheist hates or wishes to kill believers then those wishes and hates come from elsewhere, from political dogma or from unpleasant experiences. It really is that simple. It seems that some believers are unable to comprehend that it is possible to not have a belief in a god, they can only see atheism as having a belief that god doesn't exist, whereas in reality there is no belief involved.
* this is the domain of religious belief
* this is the domain of religious belief
jomifl; In the name of those who have perished, my heart sinks when I read your stupid plea for the exoneration of the terrors which have been carried out in the name atheism. Are you really trying to cover up the atrocities which I have outlined above? Are you a denier of the holocausts the religious have suffered by atheists attempting to impose atheism on them in such places as the USSR and Tibet? Do you deny that the Ukranian parents of a friend of mine were forced to a Siberian gulag (mercifully surviving when many did not) for trying to resist the overthrow of their church and giving support to their priest who tried to prevent the forced imposition of atheism on their community by Soviet atheists in the name of Marxist/Leninist warped ideology?
-- answer removed --
Birdie; you said, ".... his [Stalin's] political 'purges' which had nothing whatsoever to do with religion or the lack of it."
If you say his political purges had nothing to do with the Communist Holocaust, the closure of all churches and religious institutions, and the killing of 28 Russian Orthodox bishops and more than 1,200 priests, this being only a fraction of the overall death toll within all the religions. If you say this had nothing to do with an attempt to impose atheism by force and the punishment of those not complying and resisting, then it is you who are lying, and even worse, holocaust denying.
If you say his political purges had nothing to do with the Communist Holocaust, the closure of all churches and religious institutions, and the killing of 28 Russian Orthodox bishops and more than 1,200 priests, this being only a fraction of the overall death toll within all the religions. If you say this had nothing to do with an attempt to impose atheism by force and the punishment of those not complying and resisting, then it is you who are lying, and even worse, holocaust denying.
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