Quizzes & Puzzles1 min ago
Why are atheists so mistrusted (despised?) by those who believe?
139 Answers
I've often heard it said (mostly by Americans on TV) that they'd rather vote for someone who was religious, regardless of their religion, than they would an atheist.
So two questions:
Question A: Christians, who would you prefer to have as a neighbour - a muslim or an atheist?
Question B: Muslims, who would you prefer to have as a neighbour - a christian or an atheist?
So two questions:
Question A: Christians, who would you prefer to have as a neighbour - a muslim or an atheist?
Question B: Muslims, who would you prefer to have as a neighbour - a christian or an atheist?
Answers
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Khandro, why do you keep asking questions in this mysterious way? I answered one from you yesterday and got no response. I might be wrong, but I get the impression that you are in some agreement with Keyplus. If you have something to say, say it.
Keyplus, I think most people read your post the way I did. There is no other way to read it. The words are there, you wrote them, and being rude to me won’t make them go away.
Keyplus, I think most people read your post the way I did. There is no other way to read it. The words are there, you wrote them, and being rude to me won’t make them go away.
vulcan; Whether or not this particular incident was instigated by the CIA, I do not know, and keyplus can certainly give no proof , though he is free to conjecture. Terrible things are happening out there courtesy of the CIA, read the statistics I posted 09:01 yesterday. This is big-time politics, and the Islamic religion plays only a peripheral role here.
@Khandro - Do you agree with Keyplus' assertion that the attempted assassination with Malala was carried out as some sort of black flag operation by the CIA or a CIA sponsored assassin?
I am still not sure what your post regarding the drones was supposed to highlight. The use of drones is a moral maze, and the thought of war as a kind of glorified video game is repugnant - but it does not serve to explain the specific issue of Malalas assassination attempt.
A
I am still not sure what your post regarding the drones was supposed to highlight. The use of drones is a moral maze, and the thought of war as a kind of glorified video game is repugnant - but it does not serve to explain the specific issue of Malalas assassination attempt.
A
LG; It seems odd (to say the least) that you ask //Do you agree with Keyplus' assertion that the attempted assassination with Malala was carried out as some sort of black flag operation by the CIA or a CIA sponsored assassin?// as a response to my previous post ; // Whether or not this particular incident was instigated by the CIA, I do not know, and keyplus can certainly give no proof , though he is free to conjecture.//
Do I not make myself clear?
Re. //what your post regarding the drones was supposed to highlight.//
I can only say, - go figure!
Do I not make myself clear?
Re. //what your post regarding the drones was supposed to highlight.//
I can only say, - go figure!
Well no, not really. Your answer seems equivocal.Still does. I would not have asked otherwise.
I must say its very kind of you to contribute opaque points to the thread. Good debating tactic - to post irrelevance, act inscrutable and then pretend it has significance.
Lets see if anyone else can decipher why you felt posting a list of drone strikes and casualties added anything to a thread about theistic attitudes to atheism, or how it contributes to the more specific points about taleban targets.
I must say its very kind of you to contribute opaque points to the thread. Good debating tactic - to post irrelevance, act inscrutable and then pretend it has significance.
Lets see if anyone else can decipher why you felt posting a list of drone strikes and casualties added anything to a thread about theistic attitudes to atheism, or how it contributes to the more specific points about taleban targets.
-- answer removed --
Khandro - “... Could you please explain how much knowledge you have of CIA operations in Pakistan, and how it conflicts with what he is saying?...”
I have as much knowledge on this matter as Keyplus. No more and no less. However, logic and reasoning leads me to conclude that Keyplus is in fact talking complete nonsense as usual.
Since Keyplus won't respond to any of my posts maybe you can help to throw a little light on his theory and the likelihood of it being true? Assuming the CIA are running some covert operations in Pakistan (which I agree they most probably are), what possible benefit to them would be achieved by the attempted murder and the actual murder of schoolgirls? Bearing in mind that according to Keyplus's theory the CIA are *covertly* running the Pakistani Taliban, what would be achieved by deliberately focusing the world's media attention on this particular district and on the alleged 'CIA Taliban' in particular?
Keyplus's theory seems to suggest that the attack was to cover up other activities in Pakistan. But what other activities were under international media scrutiny at that particular time that would require such a huge distraction? Despite what Keyplus may think, the world's media normally couldn't give a hoot about Khyber Pakhtunkhwa province nor North or South Waziristan. If the 'CIA Taliban' did organise and carry out this atrocity, they must surely be the most ineffective covert operators in the whole of Asia by unnecessarily creating a media circus with them apparently at the centre of it.
His whole theory collapses under the weight of its own absurdity.
I have as much knowledge on this matter as Keyplus. No more and no less. However, logic and reasoning leads me to conclude that Keyplus is in fact talking complete nonsense as usual.
Since Keyplus won't respond to any of my posts maybe you can help to throw a little light on his theory and the likelihood of it being true? Assuming the CIA are running some covert operations in Pakistan (which I agree they most probably are), what possible benefit to them would be achieved by the attempted murder and the actual murder of schoolgirls? Bearing in mind that according to Keyplus's theory the CIA are *covertly* running the Pakistani Taliban, what would be achieved by deliberately focusing the world's media attention on this particular district and on the alleged 'CIA Taliban' in particular?
Keyplus's theory seems to suggest that the attack was to cover up other activities in Pakistan. But what other activities were under international media scrutiny at that particular time that would require such a huge distraction? Despite what Keyplus may think, the world's media normally couldn't give a hoot about Khyber Pakhtunkhwa province nor North or South Waziristan. If the 'CIA Taliban' did organise and carry out this atrocity, they must surely be the most ineffective covert operators in the whole of Asia by unnecessarily creating a media circus with them apparently at the centre of it.
His whole theory collapses under the weight of its own absurdity.
We are a long way from birdie's orig. question I know, but it wasn't I who steered it away, however that's where we are. The drone strike statistics clearly demonstrate how much life is being taken within the borders of Pakistan by the CIA. As I have reiterated; I don't know if they were responsible for this attack (by proxy) on the young girl, but it is not beyond credibility. Whoever is responsible, it has certainly fanned the flames of hatred even further. There is a widely held and naive view of the 'Talliban' as if it were a homogeneous group all working in unison toward a common end under one leadership, whereas in fact it contains large divisions, some tribal, and of leadership by different war lords with a variety of agendas, many are downright mercenaries to whom waging war is a way of life, and it would be a simple matter have such an attack carried out, which would heighten the credibility of the CIA's involvement, and add 'only one more number' to the already appalling statistics.
Ahh, some clarity from Khandro at last.
Most who post here will be familiar with the nature and extent of the drone strikes by the CIA and the other organisations that employ them. Many who post here will be uneasy at the moral and ethical implications of the deployment of such a tactic; will be horrified at the extent of civilian and non- combatant casualties that such strikes often cause, especially as amongst the reasons given for using such a weapon is the alleged precision of the attacks.
All here will be equally familiar with the idea the the CIA could mount covert actions, directly or indirectly through proxy, in an effort to destabilise the opposition.
To contend that every single high profile death or action attributed to the taleban / al qaeda is actually a CIA black flag operation, or that 9/11 or 7/7 terrorist attacks were organised by western intelligence agencies is simply to buy into the same delusion that keyplus offers- fanatical adherence to religion and a culture that he views as being the victim. Nothing is the fault of Islam. Islam is the religion of peace and love. Any suggestion that agents of Islam might kill or dismember or maim is a lie put about by western intelligence agencies. It is clear what Keyplus's motives are in believing such delusions.The motives for anyone else to buy into such conspiracy theories is less obvious - a desire to seem smart, part of the counter-culture maybe?
Could the CIA have been involved? Yes, of course the probability exists, but it is extremely unlikely. You have to employ a degree of rationality and critical analysis here, rather than just accept stuff because it fits a worldview that sees conspiracy everywhere. Occams razor should apply. In the absence of credible, validated evidence to the contrary, the attack on Malala was instigated by the Taleban, determined to make an example of a young girl who is a defiant public symbol of opposition, willing to make a public stand for her right to an education. This was an attempted assassination by fundamentalists attempting to impose their own warped cultural values and religious interpretations on everyone through force and terror.
But Keyplus - and now you it seems- refuse to outright condemn such actions, preferring instead to temper half-hearted expressions of sympathy by attempting to define a context in which such actions could be seen as defensible. You both should be ashamed.
Similarly, we never got a condemnation of the actions of parents who murdered their own daughter in a vicious, cruel and barbaric acid attack for the crime of looking at a boy twice - a crime only by a warped interpretation of cultural and religious values that dominates at the moment, it seems. Keyplus does not condemn, just blathers on that such attacks happen all the time, around the world.
Both attacks illustrate the point that, rather than atheists being mistrusted or despised because of a perceived lack of a religiously- derived moral code, the true targets of such views should be the fanatic, the devout believer of any religion, because it is that fervent belief that sets the climate in which violent, fundamentalist extremists can flourish and be nurtured.
It is the true believers that should be reviled, mocked and despised. True believers who reject scientific and contraceptive education for their kids, or like JWs who look forward to the day of judgement, Islamists who believe in the global dominance of Islam and establishment of a caliphate, the Christian Westboro Baptist Church that preach bile and hatred about homosexuals,The Christian" Knight Templar" in Norway who murdered 60 children defending Christianity against Islam, Anglican bishops in Africa and Europe who preach that gays are an abomination, the protestant fundamentalists who insist that the world was created in 7 days 6000 years ago, the christian pro-lifers that murder doctors willing to offer abortions.
Most who post here will be familiar with the nature and extent of the drone strikes by the CIA and the other organisations that employ them. Many who post here will be uneasy at the moral and ethical implications of the deployment of such a tactic; will be horrified at the extent of civilian and non- combatant casualties that such strikes often cause, especially as amongst the reasons given for using such a weapon is the alleged precision of the attacks.
All here will be equally familiar with the idea the the CIA could mount covert actions, directly or indirectly through proxy, in an effort to destabilise the opposition.
To contend that every single high profile death or action attributed to the taleban / al qaeda is actually a CIA black flag operation, or that 9/11 or 7/7 terrorist attacks were organised by western intelligence agencies is simply to buy into the same delusion that keyplus offers- fanatical adherence to religion and a culture that he views as being the victim. Nothing is the fault of Islam. Islam is the religion of peace and love. Any suggestion that agents of Islam might kill or dismember or maim is a lie put about by western intelligence agencies. It is clear what Keyplus's motives are in believing such delusions.The motives for anyone else to buy into such conspiracy theories is less obvious - a desire to seem smart, part of the counter-culture maybe?
Could the CIA have been involved? Yes, of course the probability exists, but it is extremely unlikely. You have to employ a degree of rationality and critical analysis here, rather than just accept stuff because it fits a worldview that sees conspiracy everywhere. Occams razor should apply. In the absence of credible, validated evidence to the contrary, the attack on Malala was instigated by the Taleban, determined to make an example of a young girl who is a defiant public symbol of opposition, willing to make a public stand for her right to an education. This was an attempted assassination by fundamentalists attempting to impose their own warped cultural values and religious interpretations on everyone through force and terror.
But Keyplus - and now you it seems- refuse to outright condemn such actions, preferring instead to temper half-hearted expressions of sympathy by attempting to define a context in which such actions could be seen as defensible. You both should be ashamed.
Similarly, we never got a condemnation of the actions of parents who murdered their own daughter in a vicious, cruel and barbaric acid attack for the crime of looking at a boy twice - a crime only by a warped interpretation of cultural and religious values that dominates at the moment, it seems. Keyplus does not condemn, just blathers on that such attacks happen all the time, around the world.
Both attacks illustrate the point that, rather than atheists being mistrusted or despised because of a perceived lack of a religiously- derived moral code, the true targets of such views should be the fanatic, the devout believer of any religion, because it is that fervent belief that sets the climate in which violent, fundamentalist extremists can flourish and be nurtured.
It is the true believers that should be reviled, mocked and despised. True believers who reject scientific and contraceptive education for their kids, or like JWs who look forward to the day of judgement, Islamists who believe in the global dominance of Islam and establishment of a caliphate, the Christian Westboro Baptist Church that preach bile and hatred about homosexuals,The Christian" Knight Templar" in Norway who murdered 60 children defending Christianity against Islam, Anglican bishops in Africa and Europe who preach that gays are an abomination, the protestant fundamentalists who insist that the world was created in 7 days 6000 years ago, the christian pro-lifers that murder doctors willing to offer abortions.
-- answer removed --
LG.The "Most who post here" will also see, if they read my posts, that you are putting words into my mouth, and wishing to connect me to ideas that I do not uphold. However, with reference to the possible connection between the CIA and the attack on the schoolgirl(S!), please take a look at this article - not evidence, and not by any means conclusive, but it is not irrational, does not rant, and it poses a few questions worthy of examination. http://
Well, as you say we can let others judge whether I am putting words in your mouth.
Still no outright condemnation from you about the action itself. What has happened to her will no doubt be spun by people with a vested political interest, but you know, thats politics, and is understood.
What Keyplus asserts, and you continue to appear to support, is that the initial assassination attempt was part of some black flag operation,absolving the taleban of the attempted assassination of a forthright and very public symbol of the repression of girls by a fanatical religious organisation.
Still no outright condemnation from you about the action itself. What has happened to her will no doubt be spun by people with a vested political interest, but you know, thats politics, and is understood.
What Keyplus asserts, and you continue to appear to support, is that the initial assassination attempt was part of some black flag operation,absolving the taleban of the attempted assassination of a forthright and very public symbol of the repression of girls by a fanatical religious organisation.
Well there you are! I guess you would say that wouldn't you?
If it's of any interest, I also look most days at The Jewish Chronicle http://www.thejc.com/ , The Guardian, The Telegraph and more, most journals have a point of view, and some are quite biased, but none of them are completely wrong on everything all the time, as you appear to believe the Islamic press to be. I take it you can answer with comfort all the questions posed by that piece?
If it's of any interest, I also look most days at The Jewish Chronicle http://www.thejc.com/ , The Guardian, The Telegraph and more, most journals have a point of view, and some are quite biased, but none of them are completely wrong on everything all the time, as you appear to believe the Islamic press to be. I take it you can answer with comfort all the questions posed by that piece?
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