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what do you think of when you hear the word Jihad?
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just wanna know
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Sith why can you not understand that islam did not predate the koran or the 'revelation' to mohammed? Islam was not waiting to be discovered like a fossil dinosaur, it was invented and constructed, like an aeroplane. Convince yourself of what you wish but as I have said many times, belief doesn't alter facts as many have found to their sorrow.,
//look, in the end im not going to change your opinions and youre not going to change mine. simple as. i believe in islam because i want to ,not because i have to. I am just sharing my views like you are. Its not a converting site, its a discussion site.//
Unfortunately, the conversion has already taken place and any appeal to reason has in the process been removed from the cards.
Unfortunately, the conversion has already taken place and any appeal to reason has in the process been removed from the cards.
Sith - What people are attempting to do is educate you about reality. You may find that statement insulting but the fact is that you do not understand basic logic and common sense. The proof of this is when you state as a fact that, “... jesus spread islam, moses spread islam, adam spread islam...”.
That statement by you is complete and utter drivel and I have heard it many times before from other Muslims desperately trying to portray their religion as the one true faith. Unfortunately for them and you, the assertion is demonstrably false. This is not a question of faith but a question of logic and rationality. If you're going to make the religious claim that the first man on Earth – Adam – was in fact a Muslim who existed several millennia before Mohammed was born, then you're going to have to have some pretty remarkable historical and scriptural evidence to back up that claim. And there simply isn't any. The only 'evidence' is that created by Mohammed himself or by the various authors of the Hadiths (one of which claims that Adam was 60 cubits tall [90 feet or 27 metres] and lived for 930 years). This is not evidence by any stretch of imagination – it is irrational, illogical assertion and nothing more. The same goes for suggesting that Jesus and Moses were also Muslims.
As Naomi rightly points out, Jesus wasn't even a Christian. Both himself and Moses were Jews. As for Adam – and let's forget Eve (or Hauwwa; strange how you left her out in your statement) - neither of them were Muslims, Christians, Jews, Mormons or even Scientologists. They had no formal religion of which to speak – they simply believed in the existence of 'a' God.
I realise that a certain amount of suspension of disbelief is a prerequisite for being religious but that does not have to mean that you disengage your brain entirely.
That statement by you is complete and utter drivel and I have heard it many times before from other Muslims desperately trying to portray their religion as the one true faith. Unfortunately for them and you, the assertion is demonstrably false. This is not a question of faith but a question of logic and rationality. If you're going to make the religious claim that the first man on Earth – Adam – was in fact a Muslim who existed several millennia before Mohammed was born, then you're going to have to have some pretty remarkable historical and scriptural evidence to back up that claim. And there simply isn't any. The only 'evidence' is that created by Mohammed himself or by the various authors of the Hadiths (one of which claims that Adam was 60 cubits tall [90 feet or 27 metres] and lived for 930 years). This is not evidence by any stretch of imagination – it is irrational, illogical assertion and nothing more. The same goes for suggesting that Jesus and Moses were also Muslims.
As Naomi rightly points out, Jesus wasn't even a Christian. Both himself and Moses were Jews. As for Adam – and let's forget Eve (or Hauwwa; strange how you left her out in your statement) - neither of them were Muslims, Christians, Jews, Mormons or even Scientologists. They had no formal religion of which to speak – they simply believed in the existence of 'a' God.
I realise that a certain amount of suspension of disbelief is a prerequisite for being religious but that does not have to mean that you disengage your brain entirely.
they were all created by one god according to muslims. so of course that one god would make them preach all the same religion. He would not make them preach totally different religions would he?
//The only 'evidence' is that created by Mohammed himself or by the various authors of the Hadiths (one of which claims that Adam was 60 cubits tall [90 feet or 27 metres] and lived for 930 years). This is not evidence by any stretch of imagination – it is irrational, illogical assertion and nothing more. The same goes for suggesting that Jesus and Moses were also Muslims. //
Surely that could be evolution birdie? isnt that apparently now the most rational thought on the planet? yes i think so! If you can believe humans evolved from monkeys than you can believe this cant you? I mean it has been proven that society is apparently getting taller. In a few 1000 years they may reach that height. who knows??? If they can taller than they could have staretd out tall, gotten shorter and now start to get taller again. Its all a theory but wait, so is the THEORY of evolution!!!
//The only 'evidence' is that created by Mohammed himself or by the various authors of the Hadiths (one of which claims that Adam was 60 cubits tall [90 feet or 27 metres] and lived for 930 years). This is not evidence by any stretch of imagination – it is irrational, illogical assertion and nothing more. The same goes for suggesting that Jesus and Moses were also Muslims. //
Surely that could be evolution birdie? isnt that apparently now the most rational thought on the planet? yes i think so! If you can believe humans evolved from monkeys than you can believe this cant you? I mean it has been proven that society is apparently getting taller. In a few 1000 years they may reach that height. who knows??? If they can taller than they could have staretd out tall, gotten shorter and now start to get taller again. Its all a theory but wait, so is the THEORY of evolution!!!
Sith, //they were all created by one god according to muslims. so of course that one god would make them preach all the same religion. He would not make them preach totally different religions would he?//
Jews and Christians also believe that everyone was created by the same god – and they continue to preach Judaism and Christianity, just as they did long before Islam was invented. Unless I’m very much mistaken, neither of those religions is Islam, so if you believe it was ‘him’ who made them preach religions, then clearly he did make them preach differently.
//If you can believe humans evolved from monkeys//
Human beings did not evolve from monkeys. Man and ape evolved from a common ancestor. You’ve been told that before.
//I mean it has been proven that society is apparently getting taller. In a few 1000 years they may reach that height. who knows??? If they can taller than they could have staretd out tall, gotten shorter and now start to get taller again. Its all a theory but wait, so is the THEORY of evolution!!!//
May have? Could have? The theory of evolution doesn’t include ‘may haves’ or ‘could haves’. It relies upon verifiable evidence. If you take the trouble to look up the word ‘Theory’ in its scientific context, you’ll get a better understanding of it.
Jews and Christians also believe that everyone was created by the same god – and they continue to preach Judaism and Christianity, just as they did long before Islam was invented. Unless I’m very much mistaken, neither of those religions is Islam, so if you believe it was ‘him’ who made them preach religions, then clearly he did make them preach differently.
//If you can believe humans evolved from monkeys//
Human beings did not evolve from monkeys. Man and ape evolved from a common ancestor. You’ve been told that before.
//I mean it has been proven that society is apparently getting taller. In a few 1000 years they may reach that height. who knows??? If they can taller than they could have staretd out tall, gotten shorter and now start to get taller again. Its all a theory but wait, so is the THEORY of evolution!!!//
May have? Could have? The theory of evolution doesn’t include ‘may haves’ or ‘could haves’. It relies upon verifiable evidence. If you take the trouble to look up the word ‘Theory’ in its scientific context, you’ll get a better understanding of it.
naomi, as i have told you before but you failed to listen muslims believe in judaism, we believe in christianity they were all revealed by allah through prophets but over time have got changed so what they teach now we do not believe in. However when they were first revealed we did believe them. This is our belief.
Naomi, believe me, i know a lot of people who believe humans evolved from monkeys. Just because you do not doesnt mean its an irrational point. I know tons of people who believe we evolved from monkeys.
Fine naomi, there is evidence society is getting taller. As there is evidence for that it could mean what i said before. I know what you mean. I have looked up the word theory. Tell me however when ever something is being tested they call it a theory. Unless it is proven correct it becomes a law like newtons laws of gravity. Evolution is not a law yet as far as i know.
Naomi, believe me, i know a lot of people who believe humans evolved from monkeys. Just because you do not doesnt mean its an irrational point. I know tons of people who believe we evolved from monkeys.
Fine naomi, there is evidence society is getting taller. As there is evidence for that it could mean what i said before. I know what you mean. I have looked up the word theory. Tell me however when ever something is being tested they call it a theory. Unless it is proven correct it becomes a law like newtons laws of gravity. Evolution is not a law yet as far as i know.
Sith, Mohammed got his ideas directly from the Jews and from other earlier civilisations – and study of the Koran demonstrates that. And if you think Muslims believe in Christianity your teachers aren’t doing a very good job.
//i know a lot of people who believe humans evolved from monkeys. Just because you do not doesnt mean its an irrational point. I know tons of people who believe we evolved from monkeys.//
Who are these tons of people? Fellow Muslims, scientists, who? Science doesn’t trade on ‘belief’ – it relies upon evidence, and in this instance, the evidence supports the theory.
Definition of Theory: (this from the first dictionary I came across in Google).
"A coherent group of tested general propositions, commonly regarded as correct, that can be used as principles of explanation and prediction for a class of phenomena. Synonyms: principle, law, doctrine."
A synonym is a word that means the same as another
//i know a lot of people who believe humans evolved from monkeys. Just because you do not doesnt mean its an irrational point. I know tons of people who believe we evolved from monkeys.//
Who are these tons of people? Fellow Muslims, scientists, who? Science doesn’t trade on ‘belief’ – it relies upon evidence, and in this instance, the evidence supports the theory.
Definition of Theory: (this from the first dictionary I came across in Google).
"A coherent group of tested general propositions, commonly regarded as correct, that can be used as principles of explanation and prediction for a class of phenomena. Synonyms: principle, law, doctrine."
A synonym is a word that means the same as another
muslims believed in the previous teachings of christianity. It has got changed now so now we do not believe it. No offence naomi, actually i might as well because youve offended me before you really need to look at what someone has written before blabbering on.
A lot of people. scientists. friends who are atheists. etc.
A lot of people. scientists. friends who are atheists. etc.
naomi! seriously! you offend me all the time by putting snide remarks and comments all over the place. If you want i can find some for you ;)
youre not getting it are you? We do not believe in christianity as it is now. We believe that when it was first revealed by allah than it was the true word. Now it has been changed which is why we follow the quran.
youre not getting it are you? We do not believe in christianity as it is now. We believe that when it was first revealed by allah than it was the true word. Now it has been changed which is why we follow the quran.
naomi, amybe this will educate you:
http://www.islam-guide.com/ch3-10.htm
if we believed in jesus we would have believed in hos teachings. Its common sence.
http://www.islam-guide.com/ch3-10.htm
if we believed in jesus we would have believed in hos teachings. Its common sence.
Sith, it is not common sense. It is nonsense. You don't believe that God came to earth in the form of a man and was crucified to redeem your sins, do you? Neither do you believe that God is three in one - God the Father, God the Son, and God the Holy Ghost, do you? All of that is the basis of Christianity - and Muslims have never believed any of it You really don't know your own religion.
for gods sake naomi! do you even read anything that i put up!!!
//We do not believe in christianity as it is now. We believe that when it was first revealed by allah than it was the true word. Now it has been changed which is why we follow the quran.//
read that again. Is it clear or not. I mean youve been saying the same thing for ages on different threads before and i have given you the answer. i doubt you even read it?
//We do not believe in christianity as it is now. We believe that when it was first revealed by allah than it was the true word. Now it has been changed which is why we follow the quran.//
read that again. Is it clear or not. I mean youve been saying the same thing for ages on different threads before and i have given you the answer. i doubt you even read it?
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