Holy books, worth reading?

[jomifl]

Could reading a holy book make you believe in a god if rational thought has ruled out the possibility.

[naomi24]

I've read most of them - and nothing grabs me.

[Old_Geezer]

Only if it showed a flaw in your previous reasoning regarding rationality.

[jackthehat]

No.
I think it is possible to love the use of language , etc. but when that feeling had worn off, I would remain unmoved by the subject matter.

[RATTER15]

It really depends what you are smoking at the time and your level of gullibility.

[beso]

When I read the Bible I went from being a reasonably tolerant non-believer to actively working toward a world free of religion. It quickly became obvious that the Bible enshrined the worst of humanity's ills.

[naomi24]

Ratter, did you see my post about 'Godless' by Dan Barker? Highly recommended reading.

[birdie1971]

^ Just been reading some reviews on Amazon about 'Godless'. It looks interesting – I may buy it. Some of the negative reviews did make me laugh though. One said, “... Yet another propaganda leaflet for the atheist 'snake oil' industry!...”

Atheist 'snake oil'... now there's irony for you!

[birdie1971]

Naomi – What's going on with your Avatar? It's disappeared as of 01:14. Hopefully it will be back by the time you read this.

[Cowtipper]

Beso I'm pretty sure that your anger at religion is misplaced. I doubt you have considered that religion has been both a blessing and a curse. By the acts of religion ee have orphanages, common literacy, the end of slavery, human rights, advancement of women's rights, laws that protect us from subjugation from larger or stronger men. Your perpective has a few strong points but your vision is limited to the here and now and very few limited examples that blame religion for men's actions. If you think that the depravity of man has reached its climax and passed you need to look with a longer view.

[Cowtipper]

Forgive my typos my phone is difficult to post from.

[beso]

CowTipper is certainly suffering a delusion.

Slavery was not ended by religion. Indeed it is firmly entrenched with the Bible providing giudance on the treatment of slaves.

Women's Rights. You must surely be joking. The church has stood in the way of sexual equality a every opportunity.

Provided orphanages? The church decreed that children born out of wedlock as lesser beings and then forced them into orphanages.

It is typical of religionists who pretend that tehy invented morality. The truth is far from it. Religion is all about the enforcement of their own fascist values.

[beso]

Indeed I find Cowtipper's blatant misrepresention deeply offensive.

[RATTER15]

Hi Naomi, I could have sworn I replied to your post here, I did read it, brilliant piece of work, I actually pinched it for my FB status :)

[Cowtipper]

Beso your view is limited to the here and now and fails to take into consideration how civilization started. Every tribe had its own form of worship. A tribe could only stay intact through the bonds of kinship without uniting under a common banner. That banner is religion. As tribes grew they absorbed and conquered smaller tribes forming larger and larger tribes which allowed for greater specialization of trades. This allowed for greater advancement of civilization. Look up slavery and how it ended and tell me the church had nothing to do with it. Its foolish to think without religion the world would be Utopia because the nature of man wouldn't allow it. People would do what people do which is Sugar in their nests. You sound like you want instant gratification and that's not how society works. It moves forward with baby steps. If you wanted to end an entrenched political, economic, and socially acceptable practice it takes lifetimes, not days. Perhaps you really are soulless. I can't prove otherwise. To slam something based on a very limited perspective is foolhardy. What did Wiccans do to you that makes you dispise them? If you want to toss the baby out with the bath water go for it.

[vetuste_ennemi]

Cowtipper, what is the common banner under which meerkats unite?

[Cowtipper]

Genetic desire to breed and a herd instinct to stay alive. Observation would show how far they have advanced with their society and adaptations to living in a hostle environment. We could live like animals in holes in the ground where the fit breed and the weak die.

[naomi24]

Ratter, sorry, didn't realise you'd read it.

Cowtipper, the bathwater is disgusting - and there is no baby.

[vetuste_ennemi]

You missed out a bit in your first sentence, Cowtipper: the NEED to cooperate. No pack animals could survive without the basic instinct (morality, if you want to call it that) to help each other. The development of consciousness, an awareness of consequences and the imagination to see alternatives ways to behave are the drivers of moral development.
The religions which you seem to espouse are based on false interpretations of the universe. The god they worship is made in the image of a capricious and cruel Middle Eastern tyrant. And you haven't answered Beso's point: where in the Old or New Testament, or in the Koran is slavery condemned?

[Davethedog]

No there is nothing rational about religion. As argumentative as I am towards certain people it is your right, if you so wish, to believe in a deity, however if you apply any degree of critical thinking to it, he cannot exist and reading the contradictary messages in those books doesn't challenge that.

Cowtipper your arrogance, yet again is your undoing. The bible condones slavery
However, you may purchase male or female slaves from among the foreigners who live among you. You may also purchase the children of such resident foreigners, including those who have been born in your land. You may treat them as your property, passing them on to your children as a permanent inheritance. You may treat your slaves like this, but the people of Israel, your relatives, must never be treated this way. (Leviticus 25:44-46 NLT)

In 2006 the C of E apologised for the role it played in slavery in the Caribbean
When parliament voted compensation in 1833 - to former slave owners rather than the slaves themselves - the Archbishop of Canterbury received £8,823 8s 9d, about £500,000 in today's money, for the loss of slave labour on its Codrington plantation in Barbados. The Bishop of Exeter received even more, nearly £13,000. (From the Education Forum)

Slavery was abolished, by a combination of good people and economic neccessity. The church. if it played any part, was incidental.

[Cowtipper]

The fact that slave owners were compensated for their loss shows the overall attitude of the time. That is slaves had economic value as the system was being dismantled.