JJ disproves the existence of God

[joggerjayne]

Part 1.

From my balcony, with a stick, I could throw a lacrosse ball on to the beach. From this height, it would make a random pattern in the pebbles.

Primitive civilizations would have called this pattern ... "Creation".

As the tide came in, it would randomly change the pattern.

Primitive civilizations would have called this NEW pattern ... "God's Great Scheme".

Part 2.

Now, let's say I wanted to try to reproduce "God's Great Scheme".

I would find it impossible to throw another ball, and recreate the same pattern.

Why?

Primitive civilizations would say that it was impossible to reproduce something which could only have been created by a "Divine Creator" (ie. me, on my balcony).

Other people might say that the primitive tribes are confusing the principles of "cause and effect".

Part 3.

If someone a long way away (say, Blackpool) threw a lacrosse ball onto their own beach, the resulting pattern would be similar in some way, but different in many ways.

Primitive civilizations would have called the Blackpool pattern ... an "alien civilization".

Part 4.

Now, are these two patterns in the sand, which are impossible to reproduce, evidence of the existence of God?

If the pattern had been a bit different, would Primitive civilizations have said ... "God got it wrong?"

Or would Primitive civilizations have looked at the other random result, and said that that was ALSO proof of "God's Great Scheme"?

Or is it proof of one thing only ...

Provided you don't have to predict the outcome in advance ... no matter what the outcome is, you can look at it and say ... "This is what God intended"?

Now, hang on a minute ... I have to go and retrieve my lacrosse ball.

[yogi-bear]

My balls always land in the same spot, fluffpot :0) x

[mccfluff]

see

[joggerjayne]

pa_ul ...

I only picked lacrosse because I can't think of any other sport where you can throw the ball hard enough to reach the beach from here.

fluffy ...

You are, of course, correct. I should have said "improbable" rather than "impossible".

The Builder ...

That's very good.

[pa___ul3]

I know, and that was the divine plan of the Native American's gods! Ha!

Could you not kick a ball that far? How far are we talking? 60/70 metres?

[jno]

"I would find it impossible to throw another ball, and recreate the same pattern."

That is because you are not God - indeed, it proves you are not God. (I have only your word for it that you are even joggerjayne; the internet is not the best platform for proving anyone's existence or non-existence.) God is someone who could recreate the same pattern. Announcing that you couldn't doesn't mean He couldn't.

[snags]

If your thrown ball fell short of the beach and smacked a jogger on the side of the skull as they ran along the promenade would that be some form of devine retribution?

[joggerjayne]

I don't think you could kick a ball that far, pa_ul. Besides, it would have to be a hard ball, or the wind might carry it back.

Actually, on second thoughts, a golf ball would do it.

jno ...

I'm still trying to get my head around that.

Does "you can't do it again because you're not God" undermine my argument?

It might do.

Aah, but ... part of my argument is that neither God, nor anyone, was "trying" to do it in the first place. It was a random occurence, and it is unneccesary to attribute it to any "scheme".

[Ankou]

seems to be a lot of balls rolling around on pebble beaches in your utopian world.

but then you live in brighton, so i suppose this is a regular occurrence.

[joggerjayne]

snags ...

Joggers are moving targets, so harder to hit (although, statistically, equally likely as a static person to be in any random spot at any random time).

There are lots of static "targets" who don't move much. Buskers, street vendors, lazy people, Big Issue sellers, people from Hove.

[jno]

assuming you're right about not being able to recreate the same effect, I think that proves you're not God. It doesn't prove nobody is.

Your claim that nobody was trying to do it is just another assumption, though. God may well have been trying to do it (He does a lot of hands-on micromanaging); alternatively, He may just have set up the experiment with pebbles, joggers, lacrosse balls and tides and sat back to see what would happen.

[joggerjayne]

Ankou ... if it was Utopian, there would be free gym membership, and a 24 hour bar.

[jno]

no, no - off-puttingly expensive gym membershuip but a free bar...

[Ankou]

i was calling it 'your utopian' merely on the basis that there were lots of balls flying around and somehting tells me you like that. if you want to go even further and create the garden of eden as well, then you must beware of the apple.

and people from hove are not static. there is a pulse. just.

[joggerjayne]

jno ...
That all sounds a bit random, for someone credited with being the divine creator.

That's like spinning a roulette wheel without picking a number. When the number is 24, everyone says "God has spun a number 24 ... it's a miracle".

When I try to suggest it was just random, they say "Go on then, see if you can spin a number 24!"

When I spin a 15, they all say "Ahaaaah, so you're not God".

[joggerjayne]

Ankou ...

You're right ... people from Hove do have a pulse.

Although, most of the time, you'd have check quite carefully, just to be sure.

[joggerjayne]

Oh, poop ... I'm enjoying this, but I have to go out.

=0(

Be good, guys ... x x x

[jno]

as I understand it, things aren't 'random', everything's connected - the butterfly's wing business. It's just that there are so many factors to take into account that even the mind of a passing jogger may not be able to crunch them all, though God would be able to, unless of course it was Sunday, in which case he might be having a little rest. I'm not entirely sure what keeps the planet going on Sunday, but perhaps he gives it an extra long wind-up on Saturday night so it doesn't run down.

[mibn2cweus]

Thanks JJ, I'll sleep better tonight knowing that when I wake up in the morning it won't be in 'h e double hockey sticks' . . . or in the event I've been misguided, at least you'll be there with me.

I know, I know . . . "dream on mibn's" ;o)

[naomi24]

He spun the number 24 for me, so I gotta believe, don't I? :o/

[craft1948]

I didn't know God created lacrosse.................which chapter is that in?